Culture Over Coffee
Culture Over Coffee
Why Aren’t More Employees Inspired by Their Company’s Long-Term Vision? With Deborah Fulghum
In this episode, we continue the exploration of our latest company culture and employee engagement report, ENGAGE 2024, by asking the question: “Why aren’t more employees inspired by their company’s long-term vision?”
It’s here that we’ll cover the vital importance of clearly establishing and communicating your company’s Shared Mission to each and every employee.
Joining me to discuss and contextualize it all is the great Deborah Fulghum, Employee Engagement Specialist/Culture Coach here at Up Your Culture.
Deborah brings so many awesome insights to the table, like:
- How, too often, employees aren’t aware of the goals they are working so hard to achieve
- Why you simply have to talk about your Shared Mission and Core Values with your people all the time
- And, lastly, why establishing and emphasizing the rules of the game at your organization can mean the difference between engagement and disengagement for your people.
LINKS:
ENGAGE 2024: The Company Culture Report
Deborah Fulghum
Beth Sunshine
Up Your Culture
Hello and welcome to Culture Over Coffee, a podcast focused on improving company culture and fostering employee engagement. Every week, we chat with experts and thought leaders about the latest information and proven practices you can use to reduce regrettable turnover, increase productivity on your team and retain key customers. So pour a cup of your favorite brew and join us. I'm your host, beth Sunshine, svp at Up your Culture and the Center for Sales Strategy. In this episode, we continue the exploration of our latest Company Culture and Employee Engagement Report, ENGAGE 2024, by asking the question why aren't more employees inspired by their company's long-term vision? It's here that we'll cover the vital importance of clearly establishing and communicating your company's shared values to each and every employee values to each and every employee. Joining me to discuss and contextualize it all is Debra Fulghum, a leading employee engagement specialist culture coach here at Up your Culture. Debra shares powerful insights like how, too often, employees aren't even aware of the goals they are working so hard to achieve, why you simply have to talk about your shared mission and core values with your people all the time, and why establishing and emphasizing the rules of the game at your organization can mean the difference between engagement and disengagement for your people. Hey, Deb, thank you for joining me today for Culture Over Coffee.
Beth Sunshine:As you know, we are digging into the ENGAGE 2024 Culture Report. This season we're discussing all of the stories the data tells us. You are an expert on this stuff, so I was so thrilled you were available to sit down and talk with me for a little bit. I'm looking forward to today's topic especially. And I'm looking forward to today's topic especially we're going to dig into how connected people feel to their organization's vision, to their purpose, to their values. We know that when people feel as though they're part of something meaningful, they're more likely to bring discretionary effort to their work and, based on the survey, it looks like there's some room for improvement here, and I know that's not surprising.
Deborah Fulghum:We're helping a lot of organizations with this right now. I'm thinking maybe you can help. I'm really excited about this, excited to share it, because it's a reason you and I get out of bed every day help these companies understand what they need to do to engage their people so exciting stuff it is.
Beth Sunshine:It really is. So let's jump in. We'll start with the topic of purpose. We learned that one in 10 people lack a sense of purpose in their work, and a good chunk of those are new employees that have been there for not very long less than six months. So my first question is what can cause someone to lack a sense of purpose or a sense of meaning in the work that they do? It's a great question.
Deborah Fulghum:You know, as humans we find purpose, whether it's in our life, personally or work. We want to make a difference and it really is what propels us forward in knowing that we contribute in some way. And a lot of KPI. A lot of businesses have all these KPIs deadlines. They demand a lot of employees, yet employees don't know what they're working so hard to do and they need to. It's really become more. We've become more aware of it in the number past number of years, you know, with remote working or people being called back into the office. That's another interesting dynamic.
Deborah Fulghum:I find that people that have been called back to the office are feeling even less of a reason or purpose for what they're doing. Why am I here? What am I working so hard to do? And it's really a big piece with people. We find that thriving cultures really work with three pieces. You know why. Why am I doing this? What's my purpose? And then, okay, now that I know my why, how am I supposed to get that done? And then, where are we headed? I need to know so I can be bought in and be a part of that.
Deborah Fulghum:So you know to the point you just brought up about being new on a job, gosh, can you imagine? I mean, most people don't accept a job without feeling like they're going to make a difference. You know they get excited, they want to jump in and be excited about it. But when you imagine you jump in and you get there and a couple months in you think what am I doing again? Why are we working so hard? And I don't want to feel like I'm just punching a clock or taking a paycheck. So it's very obvious that new employees are all employees really. But new employees need to know what the North Star is and what their work is hard to do.
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, so what do you think might be getting in the way of that? How can organizations turn that around?
Deborah Fulghum:I think clarity is a big thing. I think leaders, it's important to talk about it all the time right.
Deborah Fulghum:You can't just say, oh, I told you about this week before you started, we already had this conversation. I think we have to talk about the purpose or the mission all the time. We have to talk about what your role is in our success, what you're working so hard to do, how appreciated you are in this mission, in this effort. But you know, by doing so, it makes people want to grab the paddle or the oar, jump in the boat and start row to get us down that river, as opposed to just standing by and going. What am I supposed to do? I don't even know where I'm going or what we're doing. So it's really a big deal about a difference between being thrown in the water or being given clear direction.
Beth Sunshine:I like that, so clear direction, and also it sounds like frequent communication. You were saying Frequent communication and them all the time. Okay, I like that, that's good. So I know you work with a lot of organizations to establish a clear set of core values. Just a moment ago you talked about people need to know their what, their how, their where. Core values, I guess, would be the how, and you help there a lot. You also help them not just identify the core values but really bring them to life every day, and when companies get that right, data shows engagement rises Absolutely. This year's survey showed that almost everyone who took the survey works for a company that has core values.
Beth Sunshine:Their companies have put them on their lobby walls, they put them on their website, but most didn't know what their core values were. So it sounds to me like those values aren't really core to how they do business there. So question for you what role do these core values play in an organization, and why is it important that employees know what they are? Yeah, it's a huge role.
Deborah Fulghum:It's. It's huge. You know, to the point you made. It is our why and our why, that our how, how we're going to accomplish everything we're doing. And if I don't know the rules of the game, how am I supposed to have success? Know the rules of the game, how am I supposed to have success? You know to the point you're making. We see this all the time Companies, we watch CEOs, people in the C-suite they get together and they say we need core values, we need to do this. Everybody else is doing it. We should have core values and you know they'll take some time away and they'll do that. And then they'll say we did that, here they are. And then they'll probably post them and they'll say well, we have core values.
Deborah Fulghum:Sadly, you and I have seen companies actually take core values from other companies and say, well, it worked for them. Those words can work for us, and that misses the whole point. You know core values are how we get our work done, what makes us unique, what makes us different, our personality, our stamp on us being different and separating us from our competitors, even how we do things here. What we don't want is those words just to be on the wall. They have to be represented, they have to be the leaders themselves, have to live them every day.
Deborah Fulghum:You can't just say do what I say, you have to do what I do, and I think that that's the misconception, or that next step that's not taken. We just feel like we checked the box, created those core values, but we have to bring them to life. It's really important, core values, but we have to bring them to life. It's really important. And core values must represent who we are. They can't be aspirational. They have to represent who our people are and how we do things here. It can't be what we want to be, because then everybody's confused by that right.
Deborah Fulghum:It has to be what you value, what you expect, how you're going to treat each other and how you're going to treat your clients. It's pretty important, but we have to talk about them and we have to live them ourselves in order for people to even understand that they're not just words, that we live those every single day.
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, I like that. That core values have to describe who you are, and I think you specifically said they separate you from your competition, like, why is somebody working for you as opposed to the competitor? Well, because you're different, and what makes you different in many ways is how you do things there, your culture, and that starts with your core values. So what's the best way for a company to communicate its core values so that they really take root, so that every hire that comes in, every employee that's been there, really truly lives by those core values that it defines who they are?
Deborah Fulghum:We work with clients with this all the time, because the first step, obviously, is to define your core values, but next week, to bring them to life, from idea to action, right, we have to make them actionable. So, beyond just having those, you have to. You really personally, as a leader, have to live them every day. If your core value is integrity, you have to say before we make this big decision If your core value is integrity, you have to say, before we make this big decision, does this align with us as with our integrity? Is this a decision that we're going to be able to sleep tonight?
Deborah Fulghum:If we make it's that important, we have to make big decisions around those core values and one of the best ways to spread them and get that word out is setting expectations about what they mean. So defining what it means we're always going to do and we're never going to do because people have to know, just like the rules of a classroom with a teacher, when you're young, the teacher talks about here's how we're going to behave and here's what we're not going to do. Adults need that too. So talking about that being clear and then, when people are starting to do those, rewarding and recognizing and noticing those. But I'll say this Beth, we find that we see this all the time, that people will say, well, I talk about it all the time, but they're being more descriptive of the core value, not naming it.
Deborah Fulghum:So, using the word. If your core value, core values integrity, then say I saw you act with integrity. If your core value is quality, I saw the quality work you did. It's using the words and giving feedback on that, because people respond to positive feedback and then also lets others know. This is what it means and this is what I should do. This is how I'm going to get praise and recognition right. So we say share them often, say them, talk about them with your clients. So your clients say yeah, when I think of your company, I think of quality, I think of responsiveness, I think of integrity. And we have our clients say that all the time, don't we? Because that's who we are and that's how we act. Act and that's how we get our work done.
Beth Sunshine:That's a really good measuring stick. If you were to ask someone who doesn't work for your organization but works closely with it like a client, what words would you use to describe our organization? You're right the words they share should be your core values. They should nail it if you're living them the right way.
Deborah Fulghum:I don't know about you, but even when I'm speaking with clients I'll say, well, quality is important to me, so I even use the words myself, I name it, and putting a name to it makes people see it come to life. They don't just say, oh, what's the difference with that, that company? I'm telling you what the difference is because that's what we do, right. So talking about it is big, but recognizing when somebody is doing that's really important, because now you're saying, yep, you got it, you've got it, that's good. So we say share it often, discuss them all the time, recognize people who live by them. But you know, another key piece and we have to coach on this often is don't tolerate people who aren't living by your core value.
Beth Sunshine:Yeah.
Deborah Fulghum:I mean, you and I have that discussion all the time. That's a tough call. What do you do? How do you take that conversation? But people are watching you. If you don't have that conversation, what are you saying? Is this really a core value? Is it really a priority?
Beth Sunshine:That's right. Yeah, if you're using your core values in the way you just described, considering it as your North star, almost as you're making big decisions, if this is the, the, your North star, or you know the, the roadmap to success, then I suppose you know the roadmap to success. Then I suppose you know allowing behaviors to happen that aren't aligned would be just sending you on a roadmap in the wrong direction, sending you on the compass to the wrong point You're giving a mixed message yeah.
Deborah Fulghum:Yeah, For this person. Wait a minute. What was the rule? If that's a rule of the game, why isn't it a rule for everybody?
Beth Sunshine:Yeah.
Deborah Fulghum:So how true is that?
Beth Sunshine:core value right, exactly, that's right. Hearing you say that tells me you were probably just as disheartened as I was when I learned in the survey that 87% of people said that their leaders tolerate behaviors that don't align with their company's core values. So I mean I found that really shocking. And more than half don't even see people demonstrating their values at work. So we say we value quality, integrity, responsiveness. Imagine if 87% of our people said, oh, people act without integrity, responsiveness, quality all the time. And then imagine if half of us looked around and said I don't even see those behaviors happening here. What happens when there's a disconnect like that? There's a disconnect between the values that the leadership group establishes for the company and the behaviors that people actually demonstrate every day.
Deborah Fulghum:Yeah, it's, it's crazy, it we talk about. We work our way to earning trust because we can't demand trust, right. But one of the fastest way to take away trust immediately is to go against something you are saying is important to you, right? And if we're talking about that, if you think about it's interesting when we have culture and engagement surveys there's one question that is a real standout. That it's it's I'm going to paraphrase it, but it's essentially when somebody doesn't do something they're supposed to that we do something about it. Yeah, and it's an engagement question, because if I'm watching and I know it's not right and you're not doing anything about it, it's kind of like saying it's okay for a kid to have a temper tantrum, go ahead, have one whenever you want to. It's not acceptable. And if we're accepting it, we're condoning bad behavior and that's not good.
Deborah Fulghum:So the question comes back to what you said a few minutes ago. Is what is posted on the walls happening in the halls? You know, because employees are watching. They're watching every move a manager makes. They're thinking well, surely they're going to do something, surely they're going to say something. And if a core value of somebody, if a core value is integrity and I have seen somebody lied to a client and I'm thinking, oh, something's about to change and you don't do anything about it. I think just how important is integrity to us and if I personally have that core value of integrity, I'm thinking, maybe, maybe, this isn't the right place for me and disengagement starts to happen right, you're checking out or you're physically leaving, right.
Deborah Fulghum:And that's not a good thing. So we have to remember employees are watching. So take action. Not in front of everybody, obviously. Pull people aside. Talk to you to find out how do we correct us, how do we move forward? What are you going to do differently next time? That's my role as a leader to do that, and I need to own it because I have to take responsibility if someone is not living by a core value. It's that important.
Beth Sunshine:It is. So I don't know if you have anything to add, but this is obviously a problem. The survey shows that companies are not getting this right in many ways, so how would you recommend that managers fix this?
Deborah Fulghum:Yeah, Again, I think you have to think have I clearly defined the score value? So maybe I need to sit down with them, talk about it, give examples of seeing it in action and what it's supposed to look like. You know I need to talk to them, make sure they understand. And you know, as you're sitting here listening to me, you and I both have a lot of positivity. So we tend to shake our heads and it sounds like we're agreeing. But it could be that we're just listening. So one of the key points to that is, if I see somebody shaking their head, I'm going to say tell me what you like about that or tell me what you're going to do differently.
Deborah Fulghum:I don't want to assume that they're agreeing to me, with me or what I'm saying. I want to hear what they're going to do, what changes they're going to make, or that they clearly do understand going to do what?
Deborah Fulghum:changes they're going to make, or that they clearly do understand no-transcript, because that person's watching what I'm doing and how I'm treating them. Right? If I have integrity, I need to treat them with integrity, as I'm even having this conversation. That's really important. That's exactly right. It also tells me that maybe we're not talking about core values enough, right? Are we talking about them? Are we saying the name? Are we rewarding and recognizing people enough? Or do we think, oh, people already know what that means, right? Not that simple, right? You and I talk about the fact that leaders should probably set a goal, for managers don't feel like they're getting enough feedback and recognition or being rewarded or recognized. And what a great way to do that with core values Simple, easy.
Beth Sunshine:Right.
Deborah Fulghum:I see you living that. I mean taking a moment to give those shout outs costs nothing. I mean taking a moment to give those shout outs costs nothing and pays huge dividends.
Deborah Fulghum:I mean, how hard is it? It's not. But, like you, you've given some great examples in the past. Which I love is give yourself a goal of it. If you want to do something, 10 times, put 10 pennies in one pocket and transfer a penny to the other pocket throughout the day as you're doing something. Give yourself a visual. Do something to make sure that you don't end the day saying, oh, I meant to do that.
Beth Sunshine:I like that. It's good advice. I need to take it myself sometimes. No, you're welcome. So one thing I've seen you do also with clients is to help them make sure when they're hiring that they hire people that demonstrate those core values, because, if you, let's use integrity as an example- if you as an organization have very high integrity and you make a hire someone who's probably great at the job, very talented, but they lack integrity.
Beth Sunshine:We know what that does to a culture. You're not going to be happy. So I've watched you give tools to people to be able to make good decisions.
Deborah Fulghum:When it comes to this, I thank you for bringing that up, because it is very important. We actually work on cultural alignment questions to help people. So what we'll do is we'll ask people to think about your core value and what actions really describe that. How would you describe it? And then, based on that, what questions could you ask to uncover? Does somebody live by this core value? And we're not just trying to see will they do that in our job, right? What we want to know is is this who they are as a person? Yeah, because if it's who they are as a person, yeah, because if it's who they are as a person, then they're going to bring themselves to work, they're going to show up and be a part of that team and move us forward, as opposed to, like you always say, we're going to be throwing logs on the fire and helping us burn bright, because it's who they are.
Beth Sunshine:Right, yeah, well said, okay, well, moving from core values. So we've we've talked about that sense of purpose, we've talked about the how you do it, core values. So, moving on to the where, where are we going? The long-term vision of a company we learned that fewer people are motivated by their company's vision than they were last year. And again, just separating out those newer employees, some of them don't even know what the long-term vision of the company is. So can you tell us, first of all, why is a company's long-term vision directly tied to the engagement levels of its employees?
Deborah Fulghum:Yeah, you know, I'm going to expand on what you just said, because the report actually shows one in three respondents are not motivated by that long-term vision and that's actually up from last year.
Deborah Fulghum:So that's not a good trend, right? If it's getting worse, that's not good and it's worse for newer employees and that is disheartening. We've worked so hard to bring people on and we've made sure that they may be a good culture alignment for us. They're living our you know, they're innately part living those core values in their life, but bringing their best selves. But if we can't engage them and they don't see they're not compelled by that long-term vision In six months, where are they going to be in two years and will they even be with us in two years? And we know the cost to replace people is enormous. So we've worked so hard to get people. We need to do our best to keep them.
Deborah Fulghum:You have to think I don't know why I'm coming here every day If I don't know where we're headed in three years. If I'm not motivated by that, I think, gosh, I need a greater purpose, like we talked about earlier. So maybe I'm going to go somewhere else where I can feel that. So it's so important to talk to people often and to say you know, share, here's where we're headed, that shared mission, because we talk about a shared mission. If we are doing it the right way, we rally people. It motivates people. It engages people to give their best and there's nothing more motivating than being able being part of something bigger than us right, it's highly motivating and engaging. So it's a shame that people aren't doing it.
Deborah Fulghum:And we talk about how, you know it's so easy to have KPIs and follow numbers and track this, but our managers and leaders tracking engagement? They should be, and they need to be asking themselves and is this? I've created a vision and you and I have heard this so many times. Oh, I shared that vision, we shared that vision. The key word is motivate. What is going to be motivating about that? What is going to make somebody want to jump in and do that? And, as a leader, you have to ask yourself how can I motivate my people around this vision?
Beth Sunshine:Yeah, that's exactly right. A lot of times you know leaders assume their employees know the vision. The vision is for us to have a successful business.
Deborah Fulghum:It's on our website.
Beth Sunshine:But people want to know, like, if I am still here 12 months from now, what should I expect? If I'm still here three years from now, what should I expect If I'm three years from now, what should I expect? When you look into the distant future, 10 years from now, what do you see? I think that's just so valuable. So how can companies better ensure that their people have that information, that they understand the vision for the future and where that company is going?
Deborah Fulghum:Yeah, so we I've said this so many times, I feel like I'm on repeat, but you have to talk about things all the time, right? It's so easy to say, I've shared that with you. We've already talked about this or already did this. I mean, think about how many people just want to hit check, did that? And we feel like one of my favorite thoughts to plant people's minds is we feel like we've closed that loop. We've had that conversation.
Deborah Fulghum:We've closed the loop that people need to hear things repeatedly more than once. It has to be an ongoing thing I mean, you think about through life. You didn't just learn something once. You learn layers of it. Right, you tacked on a little bit more each time. We like to say that instead of closing a loop, you just are coiling it. You just need to repeat it over and over again. Repeating your mission and your vision consistently is really the key. What we suggest are town hall meetings, town hall style meetings. Our company holds these at least once a quarter. We have one tomorrow, which I'm really excited about, and our CEO constantly shares our vision, how we're tracking towards our goals. But you know, most importantly, beth, he talks about how we're going to get there, how the role each of us play and the importance of success that it takes every single one of us. It's not just one person, it's all of us together.
Deborah Fulghum:And he always weaves in our core values of how we're going to accomplish those goals. He talks about them all the time. And another great thing is he answers questions. He encourages questions and he answers questions as much as he can. He's transparent and you have to think how easy it is to be engaged when your leader's transparent and shares the mission. It's really motivating and it tells you how important the role you play is in the success of the company. It engages you.
Beth Sunshine:Well said and I love the vision of, instead of closing the loop, picture it like a coil, so you're constantly coming back to it. That's a good thing, I think, for people to walk away with. Thank you for sharing that, and thank you for spending time with me today talking about culture over coffee. That was fun. Yeah, it was Culture's addictive.
Beth Sunshine:It is. I thought it was coffee. You've shared a lot of great information and ideas today. I know our listeners have found a bunch of these nuggets very valuable For those listening. We're going to drop Deb's LinkedIn information in the show notes. You can connect with her and then, when we do that, we'll also add a link to the Engage 2024 survey and the culture report so you can check it out yourself, maybe dive into some of these things and other things that interest you. As we wrap up, a big thank you to you, deb I appreciate you being here and to all of our listeners. Remember that a strong company culture begins with you. Thanks for joining. Thanks so much for spending time with us on Culture Over Coffee. If you've enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe and join us for every episode For more helpful information on the topics of company culture and employee engagement visit us at upyourculturecom.
