ENGAGE 2023: Valued Voice

In this episode, we’re continuing our focus on ENGAGE 2023, our latest company culture and employee engagement report, by exploring the data related to Valued Voice. 

In this section of the report, we asked questions around the quality of Communication and Collaboration that employees are currently experiencing.  

Discussing these latest findings with me is the wonderful Emily Estey, VP/Senior Consultant at The Center for Sales Strategy 

Emily offers such great points to think about, like: 

• How normalizing communication makes employees feel that much more comfortable sharing their opinions 
• Why there is a difference between having a voice and having a vote 
• And, finally, why understanding how your behavior affects the roles of others just might make a world of difference when it comes to the quality of interdepartmental communication.  

Links:

ENGAGE 2023: The Company Culture Report

Emily Estey

Beth Sunshine

Up Your Culture

TIMESTAMPS:
(03:07) Interdepartmental communication could be better
(05:06) Only 60% of people feel fully informed when it comes to expectations of them
(06:38) We need our leaders to be transparent
(09:35) Different expectations for different people
(10:43) 1 in 3 employees and 1 in 4 managers feel that their opinions don't matter at work
(11:43) Everyone has a voice, not everyone has a vote
(13:24) Hold quarterly town halls and/or culture calls
(16:47) 1 in 3 people aren't comfortable being themselves at work
(19:31) Let people know that they're allowed to help shape the environment
(23:35) "I'm not a big fan of perfection"
(27:58) Understand the job of other departments.

Transcript

Beth Sunshine: (00:15)
Hello and welcome to Culture Over Coffee, a podcast focused on improving company culture and fostering employee engagement. Every week we chat with experts and thought leaders about the latest information and proven practices you can use to reduce regrettable turnover, increase productivity on your team, and retain key customers. So, pour a cup of your favorite brew and join us. I'm your host, Beth Sunshine, SVP at Up Your Culture in the Center for Sales Strategy.

Beth Sunshine: (00:50)
In this episode, we're continuing our focus on ENGAGE 2023, our latest company culture and employee engagement report by exploring the data related to valued voice. In this section of the report, we asked questions about the quality of communication and collaboration that employees are currently experiencing. Discussing these latest findings with me is the awesome Emily Estey vp senior consultants at the Center for Sales Strategy. Emily offers such great points to think about, like how normalizing communication makes employees feel that much more comfortable sharing their opinions. Why if there's a difference between having a voice and having a vote, and finally why understanding how your behavior affects the roles of others just might make a world of difference when it comes to the quality of interdepartmental communication. All right, Emily, thank you for joining me for this season of Culture Over Coffee. I've been really looking forward to this

Emily Estey: (01:56)
Me

Beth Sunshine: (01:56)
Too season. We're gonna dig into the ENGAGE 2023 Culture report. Um, we've been discussing all of the stories that data tells, and today I've been really looking forward to this topic. We're going to talk about the concept of valued voice. Mm-hmm. , which is very cool, and something that I think you are just the perfect person to talk to us on. Um, the way we talk about valued voice, it's a, a key component in a strong culture. It's really about two-way communication. So first it involves employees feeling as though their manager shares important information with them, but at the same time, it's about employees feeling as though their ideas and input input are valuable as well. So I wanna kind of tackle both sides of that equation as we talk a little bit today. You ready to get started?

Emily Estey: (02:49)
I am. Yes. Thank you for having me.

Beth Sunshine: (02:51)
So glad you're here. So, so glad you're here. All right. So I wanna start by asking you just a really broad question. When you looked over the report, were there any stats or findings, anything that just jumped out at you related to valued voice that you know you wanna share today?

Emily Estey: (03:07)
Yeah, I think probably the thing that jumped out, and I know we'll talk about it a little bit further, but probably the thing that jumped out at me the most was the interdepartmental communication. And honestly, not only jumped out at me the most, but like scared me the most. Like, that's just, it was, you know, if you look, add up both of the, of the, um, columns of either, you know, we're good but could be better or it's not very good at all. That's 77%. Yeah. That was two statistics. Statistics together. And that was shocking to me. And I see that in my work. Do do you, you, yeah. I, it, it's, it's, it's a thing, you know, like, it's almost like wow, departments that do, inter departments that do communicate well, it's like, oh wow, how do you do that? So now think about the bottlenecks though, that that creates, think about the loss of time and efficiency that must create, though. I mean,

Beth Sunshine: (04:07)
It's

Emily Estey: (04:07)
Striking. Yeah.

Beth Sunshine: (04:08)
A is a lot. It is a lot. And I know just with up your culture, when we work with companies, it is often one of the things, one of the reasons we get called into help. So I wasn't surprised to see it. I know it's a pain point, but like you, I think it was one of one of the most striking statistics in the whole report for

Emily Estey: (04:26)
Me. Right. It's almost like it's a given that that departments don't get along. Yeah. And, and I just think that's, that, that's, um, mindset, just antiquated. Like, come on. Like that's

Beth Sunshine: (04:37)
I agree. I agree. And you're right. It's, it's gotta be, it's an expensive problem to have. Yes. And it keeps people from really being their best wonder

Emily Estey: (04:47)
That

Beth Sunshine: (04:48)
A little bit. Yeah. Okay. So let's go a little bit deeper. I mentioned just a second ago about that two-way street that comes with valued voice. And I wanna start, uh, by talking about the information that's coming in and how much clarity people have on what's expected of them at work. Right? So the survey showed, and I'm sure you saw this, that only 60% of people feel fully informed Yeah. Leaving 40% who need more information on in order to do their jobs. Well, you work with a lot of different organizations and I'm just curious from your perspective, are you seeing or hearing this need for more information?

Emily Estey: (05:24)
Yeah. And to take that statistic even further, 54% of AEs didn't feel that transparent, you know, didn't feel that, that they knew enough to do their job. Yeah. Um, I can speak from experience almost because of our own culture mm-hmm. , and one of the, one of the basis of our culture is transparency. That's right. Um, transparency about all the things. And even if something's not transparent, I know that I could, you know, if something's not said, I know that I could ask one of our leadership and they would give me me a transparent answer. Mm-hmm. . So that's a, that's a trust thing. And I think if you as a, as leadership aren't transparent, I think what that, what that um, says to your team is, we don't trust you.

Beth Sunshine: (06:14)
I agree.

Emily Estey: (06:14)
We do not with this information. You are not trusted and that that's not a great feeling, right? Mm-hmm. , um, of course we are given information and almost always our leadership will say, okay, this is, this is internal information, you know, great. That's fine. Um, but that, that basis I think is so important. So we need to know, we need our leaders to be transparent, and we need leaders to be able to define the why behind certain expectations. And then I also think the second part of the expectation is what's, what's, what's the accountability? Hmm. Cause it's really difficult to have an expectation if you don't have the accountability factor too. And that's where I see things really falling off. And that goes back to not holding people accountable because leadership doesn't have a great talent bank, or, you know, you can back that all the way up to, to them being afraid of people leaving because it's so hard to find people like that whole thing. So I think people shy away from expectations because of the accountability piece.

Beth Sunshine: (07:22)
So if you set expectations, then it, it's required for you to keep up with them and to make sure that people are living up to those expectations and hold them accountable. Right. And if you don't, then people just, you assume they're gonna do their best.

Emily Estey: (07:35)
Right. They're gonna do their best. And the expectation doesn't really have a lot of weight if I don't know what's gonna happen positively or negatively. Yeah. Right. You fulfill this expectation. This is how we're going to hold you accountable in the pos in a positive way. Right. I mean, or if not, this is what we're gonna do. So, yeah. Um, I think that communication, I think people want expectations. They want to know what's expected of them. They don't want that to be gray at all. So as leaders, I think really defining what that is, is a gift to, to people.

Beth Sunshine: (08:13)
I agree. I used to have a manager a while back, long time ago, who I used to joke around and say that he would give me information on a needs to know basis, and I never need to know apparently, because he would like eek out information, never wanting to give the big picture. And I kept thinking, if I had that bigger picture, I knew truly what was expected of me. I could rise to the occasion so much better. I agree. I think people really wanna know, right. What's expected of them. So what do you recommend, how would you help managers do a better job of that? Setting clear expectations and giving people the information they need to be successful to, to reach a higher standard.

Emily Estey: (08:53)
I think obviously be very clear about the expectation and not having, you know, I'll hear managers say all the time, like, well, they hit their budget, but you know, a couple of the things that they got, the couple of reasons they did that because they were call-ins,

Beth Sunshine: (09:11)
That doesn't count .

Emily Estey: (09:13)
I'm like, what? Wait, wait a second. So I think you have to be very clear, obviously about the expectation, but not overload the expectation. Mm-hmm. , like, what is it you hit your, um, you know, you hit, you hit budget, you, um, you know, attendance. Like, I don't know what those

Beth Sunshine: (09:34)
Things are. What are we measuring?

Emily Estey: (09:35)
Right? What are you measuring? Mm-hmm.  what? And also have expectations around those things that you want to see growth in. Right. And that could be different for different people. Maybe somebody needs an expectation around new business development and maybe somebody else needs an expectation about just hitting an overall budget or whatever, whatever that is. Mm-hmm. So I think, um, I think ex different expectations for different people is smart. And I also think, you know, we need to limit those from like, you know, three to four expectations. We can't overload people because that's, you know, the spinning that's the, the, the different bells going off and we don't want too many bells.

Beth Sunshine: (10:18)
And based on what you said a moment ago, as a manager, you might actually be able to hold people accountable to Right. A more manageable number. Right. Makes perfect sense.

Emily Estey: (10:27)
Exactly. Okay.

Beth Sunshine: (10:28)
So let's flip that over. Look at the other side of this. So, uh, a lot of people reported feeling that their opinions don't matter at work. So it's not about getting information now it's about their manager being open to hearing from them. And one of the, the numbers that jumped off to me was one in every three employees and one in every four managers feel that their opinions don't matter how. Well, first, lemme just ask you, what is your take on that?

Emily Estey: (10:56)
I think, um, people feel, and I, and I would say, I don't know if this is true or not, but, you know, coming out of the pandemic, thinking about the hybrid work environment or not hybrid work environment, or there's been a little bit of a disparity between people being heard their needs and what's working for them and what managers want. Um, so I, this doesn't really surprise me right now mm-hmm. , um, I think, you know, geez, I, it kind of breaks my heart like feeling like, oh, my voice doesn't matter. Like, I could say what I feel. So I think there's, there's something that I love that I talk to managers a lot a, a about a lot, and that's the difference between having a voice and having a vote.

Beth Sunshine: (11:41)
Hmm.

Emily Estey: (11:43)
And we want our team to have a voice for sure, but we also want it known on what things they actually have a vote on and what things they don't. Right. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Because a lot of times if you're asking your team how they feel about something, it's important to put that disclaimer out there. Like, I wanna hear from you, but I'm the one that's ultimately gonna make the decision mm-hmm. , but it's important for me to have your input. A lot of times I think AE is confuse that. They think, oh, if I have a voice, that means I'm making the decision. Right. And that's, that's, and so then they feel like they're not heard because management didn't go with their opinion or what, you know what I mean? Right. So I think it's important to, to, for managers to be very clear on what they're asking for mm-hmm.  and what that means as far as, is this, do I have a vote here? Or are you just asking for my voice? Are you just asking for me to speak up? Um, and give my opinion. Um, I think that's important that you be very clear about that.

Beth Sunshine: (12:48)
Everybody has a voice. Not everybody has a vote. I, I like that a lot. And you're right, as a leader, hearing all of the voices can be impactful in making the decision, but if you set up expectations upfront, but you know, I'm seeking input doesn't mean I'm gonna go in that direction. Right. You're right. That's the stage for a better outcome. Yeah. That's a good tip. Yeah. How can organizations besides that, you might even have some other ideas just get better at seeking and valuing employee input so people know that their voice really does matter.

Emily Estey: (13:22)
Yeah. I think, um, I think continually asking where we can improve, like I think that's maybe you have a, a quarterly town hall, or you have a quarterly, um, you know, you, you have those culture meetings, you ask us to help you with that. Like, let's figure out what, especially those organizations that have new managers or new ownership or any of those sorts of things where culture can really kind of be turned over or mm-hmm. , it's a huge opportunity to lay down culture. Yeah. Um, but I think, you know, asking, having some sort of regular like self-improvement  Yeah. Meeting or self-improvement input or town hall or something like that where you can gather people's opinions, um, expression, you know, feelings, all of those sorts of things. Um, I, and, and, you know, you have to take action on some of those things. Right, right. But I think it's, it's normalizing the behavior that I think is important. Like, we normalize that. We wanna hear what you have to say. So, you know, you schedule out those town hall meetings and you have four of them a year. Everybody knows they're coming. Um, you know, you have a state of the state meeting much like we do, you know, anything like that I think is really, really important.

Beth Sunshine: (14:43)
I agree. At our state of the state meeting, we do something that I think a lot of companies do. Tell me what you think about this. We ask all of our employees to submit questions if they have them in advance so that they don't have to say them out loud. Right. But they know that their, their voice is valued and then they get answered during the meeting. Yep. Mm-hmm. , is that something you're seeing other companies do?

Emily Estey: (15:05)
Um, a little bit. I don't think people are as, um, as, oh, what is the word that I'm looking for? Um, um, as, uh, they don't have a routine around it, right? Mm-hmm. ,

Beth Sunshine: (15:19)
I

Emily Estey: (15:19)
Agree. We have a routine around that. Right. And some companies do, but I don't think there's a routine around it. It's not normalized behavior. So then when you're like, oh, they're asking my opinion, should I give it? I don't know. They never answered my opinion before. I don't know how that's gonna be used against me. You know what I mean? Right.

Beth Sunshine: (15:35)
Yeah.

Emily Estey: (15:35)
But if you're normalizing it and, and you're seeing it be, um, welcomed and, um, people are getting excited about your ideas, I mean, we see that all the time. Yeah. Like when we collaborate within our team, and, you know, everybody's like, oh, that's a great idea. Like even leadership's like, oh my gosh, that's a great idea. There's no ego involved in it. Um, you know, a lot of, a lot of those things. But I think normalizing the, the, the ask the asking of opinions is probably the most important thing,

Beth Sunshine: (16:05)
Really valuable point. The normalized behavior and also the routine. I I love both of those additions you made to this conversation, because I agree, the more it's happening, it becomes more normal. The routine of it makes it less intimidating. It's just how we do things here. Exactly. It's really great point. Yeah. All right. So when valued voice is strong, in general, we find that people are very comfortable being themselves at work. They, they, they just show up as their authentic selves. This survey showed that 65% of people are comfortable doing that. They, they, 65% let their guard down and they, they can just be themselves in the workplace. And I think that's a respectable number. Um, but that still leaves one in three people who aren't. So I wanna start by just asking, why do you think it's important in general for people to be able to show up and be the, their authentic selves not have to mask their true personality or their true style? Why is that important?

Emily Estey: (17:05)
I think it's about feeling really, you know, we spend 40, 50, 60 hours of work at a week at work, um, to not feel like you can be yourself. That's a, that's a chore. That's exhausting. Like , I mean, I don't even know what that would be like. Um, but honestly, I mean, for that reason alone, I mean, you want people to be able to show up as their authentic selves. And part of that showing up as your authentic self is being able to voice your feelings, your opinions. I mean, all of us have those. So, um, if you can't show up and do that, then, then you're not gonna last very long. You're gonna find someplace else where you're accepted, because that's about acceptance. Right.

Beth Sunshine: (17:54)
It's, I agree. Um,

Emily Estey: (17:56)
So, you know, the other, the the thing that I, I think about too is make sure, you know, as a leader, the kind of people that fit into this organization, like who, who is a good fit that goes back to hiring, right? Um, I work with one of my clients, and they recently hired a woman. She moved across the country to take the job. Um, and I can't tell you how much she's changed the culture, and she's an ae and she's changed the culture in a good way. In

Beth Sunshine: (18:30)
A good way. Okay.

Emily Estey: (18:31)
She's showing up. She, she knows herself and she is authentic as it all get out. And she literally has changed the spirit of the team.

Beth Sunshine: (18:43)
Oh, I love that. So it's contagious in a way.

Emily Estey: (18:45)
Yeah. And she's kind of leading others to kind of be their authentic selves. Like, it's, it's been kind of amazing, a actually, but she's really, um, by, I think that's the point is like, when people are able to show up as their authentic selves, it just lifts the whole spirit Yeah. And the whole culture of the organization.

Beth Sunshine: (19:06)
I can see that. So what can be done to improve here? Because I know that doesn't exist for everybody. Yeah. What recommendations do you have?

Emily Estey: (19:15)
Um, oh, gee, that's a, that's a tough one. I mean, obviously it's again, making sure that people are heard mm-hmm. , that people are, that coming into an, in that they are sh helping to shape the environment mm-hmm. , right? That they're allowed to help shape the environment. And there's a lot of things you can do with he having your team, like, much like our culture committee, there's a lot of ways to get input from people about the way that they wanna show up at work, what they wanna see at work, what they need at work. So again, normalizing those que like those questions and asking those questions. Um, you know, much of the work that we do at up your culture, I mean, that is also helping people do this and have these conversations. But I think, um, again, normalizing, allowing people and accepting people for who they are. I mean, I know that sounds, you know, cliche kind of, but it really is that acceptance factor.

Beth Sunshine: (20:16)
It's, yeah, it's more and more we're learning that the more diverse an organization is, and I don't mean diversity in just ethnicity or religion or gender, I mean, diverse thinking, diverse backgrounds. You bring different skills and perspectives, you know, the better the organization performs. And, and that's because of exactly what you're talking about. I also really liked what you said a minute ago, which was there's such a, an important role in hiring, right? That when you bring someone on who is a good fit for what you need, let's say you're a fast moving organization, if you bring someone on who also has that intensity, they're fast moving too. They're more likely to be able to show up as their authentic selves. You bring someone on who's highly analytical, someone who's, you know, they think so much before they can act. Now you're asking them to be something that they're not.

Beth Sunshine: (21:09)
So I, I loved that that comment you made too. Yeah. It's really smart. Okay. So you've heard the term, I know psychological safety before it's become quite a buzzword. I imagine a lot of people have now heard the term psychological safety. And a lot of what we're talking about really involves psychological safety. Because when you have that, um, when you feel as though you can, you know, speak your mind, you can be who you are, you can make a mistake or, you know, fall down and get back up, and it's all gonna be okay. You have an environment of trust. You know where you can, you can be yourself. And I think this just really affects how employees handle a lot of things. One of which is how they handle mistakes. Yeah. Um, we all make 'em, I seem to make more than my four fair share of them, , but only 90% of employees feel comfortable admitting to the mistakes that they've made. 90 is a big number, don't get me wrong. But that's, yeah. I mean, there are still people out there, you know, that's 10% of the people who don't feel comfortable admitting to the mistakes that they've made. So, in your experience, what is the downside here, first of all? So what happens when an employee doesn't feel comfortable admitting to their mis mistakes? What do you see as a result?

Emily Estey: (22:23)
Well, I think the downside is it just slows everything down. Like if, if we can't admit a mistake, if we, we don't move forward, like if we're hiding it or if we tell a different story about it, or if we, I mean that just like truth will set you free, right? Like that's, it's true. That's true. Um, so I think it slows down. It's unnecessary. It's, I mean, I think I'm a big believer of owning my mistakes. Like, I'm like, oh, I did that and I'll be the first one be like, uh, that was me. . Yeah. I really will. Because I feel like I can't get to a solution unless I, unless we think, okay, here's the mistake. Now what's the solution? We can't get to the solution piece if we are not owning up to where we mistepped, you know? Yeah.

Beth Sunshine: (23:14)
Well said. Well said. So how can managers improve here? How can they encourage more openness so that when an employee makes a mistake, they have that comfort level to come and say, that was me and I need help. How do you make that happen?

Emily Estey: (23:28)
I think you mo you, you model that behavior, right? Mm-hmm.  100%. Um, I don't also, I'm not a big, I'm not a big fan of perfection. Like, I, I just think that ideal is silly. And again, to your point, we all make mistakes. Even though I have a kind of a, a strong perfection thing, I really have to fight. Like, no, that's not really true. That's not a thing. I think being open as le as a leader, being open themselves and modeling the behavior and saying, wow, you know what? I messed that up. I was unclear about that. I'm really sorry. I can see how that must have slowed us down. Um, and that is really hard for some people. It really is really hard, and I get that. But I think if, if you want a fast moving organization, if you wanna be solutions based, those are the things that you have to do. If you, if you make a mistake, know that not owning up to it just slows the whole thing down. That's

Beth Sunshine: (24:24)
Right.

Emily Estey: (24:24)
We can't get to the solution until we're open about, you know, the what went wrong.

Beth Sunshine: (24:29)
Yeah. I agree. I like you struggle with perfectionism. I want everything to be so perfect. And I used to work with someone who always said to me, and I loved this, she said, progress, not perfection. That's what we need. Progress, not perfection. Yep. It's a great, great reminder. And really, I wanna, oh,

Emily Estey: (24:47)
Go ahead. I was just gonna say the progress piece. If, if we aren't forthcoming, if we don't own our mistakes, then we slow down progress.

Beth Sunshine: (24:54)
That's true. There is no progress if you can't improve build upon. You're exactly right. Right. All right. I wanna come back around to the thing that you said jumped off the page for you in the beginning, cuz that was really striking. Mm-hmm. . Um, and like I said before, one of the most common reasons that companies call on us to help them improve their culture is because they have internal silos. They have something happening that has created a breakdown in communication between departments. So definitely an important thing for us to focus on. A hot button for many organizations out there. Just to restate the statistics, only 23% of the survey respondents reported that departments communicate and collaborate extremely well at their workplace, which is actually down from last year as well. So not only is that a terrible number, but it's lower than it was before. 65%, as you mentioned, believe that there's room for improvement. And 12% say it's a serious problem. And I just think it's really important. And I wanna hear from you, what are some best practices that you recommend when working with organizations to help them improve here?

Emily Estey: (25:58)
Well, this is, you know, you, you usually have someone at the top who oversees all departments, right? Mm-hmm. . And, um, it's, it's, I think a hard line is that it's unacceptable. Like interdepartment, interdepartmental, um, you know, what am I trying to say? Interdepartmental

Beth Sunshine: (26:23)
Or

Emily Estey: (26:24)
Are not acceptable, right? Like that's not okay. And working with leaders to leaders of all departments, them coming to the table first, cuz we know it starts at the top. And this is the reason this isn't okay, is because it doesn't, we will never be able to do our, our best work if we don't work together. Mm-hmm.  period. Right. So then from there, I think you do have to have a, you know, as, as, um, as they say on Seinfeld, an airing of grievances. Yeah. I think that's important. Yeah. There is, there's something getting in the way. Usually it's who's the most important department, at least with people that I work with,  mm-hmm. , who's actually running the boat here. Um, it's also, I think airing a grievances, like, what's going wrong with this department, this department? Like why aren't you communicating the way that you should I think is really important.

Emily Estey: (27:19)
And then I think you have to have buy-in from that leadership to develop a plan to solve those things, right. Knowing that it starts at the top. Okay. And if we start to see if the rest of the team starts to see that leadership's working really hard at this, then there's really no way to not fall in line, right? Mm-hmm. , all of a sudden this department's working well with the department they've never worked well with before. Then we're like, oh, okay, we're getting along now. Great. Like we have divorced parents and now they've decided to figure it out. You know what I mean? Right.

Beth Sunshine: (27:55)
Totally.

Emily Estey: (27:56)
The other thing too, I think is really important is understanding the job of other departments. Like I think that's really important. So if I get this to you at the last minute, that affects your job in this way, right? Mm-hmm.  and maybe having some shadowing and some, some, um, you know, getting a, getting a peek behind the curtain of what other people on your team are dealing with and how your behavior might affect their job or, you know, your, you know, whatever you might be doing that makes their job harder. Like, we need to know that.

Beth Sunshine: (28:35)
I love that. So senior leader at the top needs to set the expectations for this. We are going to get along and they need to hold everybody accountable to that. And then department leaders, you're saying it really starts with them. They have to begin by the grand adjusters. Like really reaching out and listening and doing all the things so that the people in their departments follow suit love the shadowing idea. Mm-hmm. , I mean, if you spend a day in the shoes of someone in the other department, maybe, um, I don't know how long you would chat or would it be a whole day? Would it be an hour? I, I don't know. But I mean you would certainly have your eyes opened to their perspective, which has to help,

Emily Estey: (29:16)
Right? Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me kind of like, this is, you're gonna laugh at this, but it reminds me of when my kids were little. Um, we made them both sign a non-aggression pact

Beth Sunshine: (29:27)
.

Emily Estey: (29:29)
And it was really like, these are the things that are unacceptable, you know, no biting, no screaming, no, you know, all of those things. And then these are the things that you can do. These are acceptable apologies that you can do.

Beth Sunshine: (29:42)
Oh, I like that.

Emily Estey: (29:44)
But these things are off the table. Like, just because your brothers and sisters does not mean that you're gonna be able to fight like mm-hmm.  crazy people. Um, and we hung it on the fridge, but we made 'em both sign it and that I kind of, it just clicked in my head like, can we come to some agreement about the way initially mm-hmm. , we're gonna communicate with each other.

Beth Sunshine: (30:05)
I love that. So an earring of the grievances and then a non-aggression pact of some sort. I like it. That's good. You think parenting doesn't prepare you for the real world, huh? Yes. Definitely does. Okay. So last question for you Emily. If you could recommend, and I know there are probably a million things, but if you had to narrow your thinking down to one thing that you would recommend all company leaders do starting tomorrow right away to improve in this area of valued voice, what would that one thing be?

Emily Estey: (30:36)
Well, I actually came up with three.

Beth Sunshine: (30:38)
Oh, okay. Share thing when I

Emily Estey: (30:40)
Came up with like a pattern, like do this, do this, do this.

Beth Sunshine: (30:42)
That's great.

Emily Estey: (30:43)
Okay. So the first thing that I would, would, um, ask them to do is, you know, find a forum to normalize the behavior of communication. Like normalize that behavior, ask the team what could be improved. Mm-hmm. , ask everybody what could be improved. And, and that's kind of the town hall. Like we give our, maybe we do our um, you know, state of the state and then we open it up to questions much like you were talking, like we do. So ask the team what could be, um, improved. The second thing is be open to criticism. You're gonna get criticized. Mm-hmm. . And the best thing to do is to listen to that and not get defensive. That's important because that shuts down a conversation like nothing else. Mm-hmm. , the third thing is then take action. Right? It's one thing to ask people to be transparent, um, but if you don't choose to take action on that, there's really no need to even ask.

Beth Sunshine: (31:38)
That's a really good point cuz you, you really set, set yourself up for, for potential failure if you ask and then you disregard entirely. It's better if you didn't ask at all. So you gotta see it all the way through, don't

Emily Estey: (31:50)
You? That's right. And leaders, like I would say, valued voice, that communication, especially up the chain where people are, are, are not feeling valued. It's not so much that maybe they're not being asked, but there's no action taken, which is the same thing. So if you're asking all day long what people think, but you're not taking any action on it, just don't even ask.

Beth Sunshine: (32:13)
Right. It's it, it's better not to. That's exactly right. Right. Oh, I really appreciate you spending time with me today. You know, I knew I wanted to have you on an episode so badly and this was the one for you because you just, you've mastered value voice, you make, everyone you talk to really feel heard. It's clear that you value the opinions of others. Um, and you also are so great at sharing your own, even in tough situation, I I tough situations. I've seen you step in and say, I've gotta just tell you how I feel. And so I was just really thrilled you said to, you said you feel to do this one. Thank you

Emily Estey: (32:49)
So much Beth. I appreciate you.

Beth Sunshine: (32:51)
Oh, nice. And I know all of our listeners are going to find all this information. Uh, I'm glad you came with up with a ending there cuz I think that's something they can really put into play right away. Um, so for those listening you may wanna connect with Emily. We're gonna drop Emily's LinkedIn information in the show notes so you can connect with our LinkedIn. I'm also going to add a link to the Engage 2023, the Culture Company Culture Report so you can dig in yourself. And as we wrap up, just as a reminder and you all know this, but remember that regardless of what role you play in your company, a strong company culture definitely begins with you. Thanks so much for spending time with us on Culture Over Coffee. If you've enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe. Join us for every episode. For more helpful information on the topics of company culture and employee engagement, visit us. Set up your culture.com.