Dealing With a Tough Recruitment Market with Mary Beth Meadows

In this episode, we’re not only examining the current state of recruitment, and how truly tough it feels for so many, but we’re also breaking down how to best approach your recruitment efforts in order to find the top talent your organization needs no matter what is going on in the world. 

Joining Beth to talk about it all is a bona fide recruitment expert, Mary Beth Meadows, Senior Executive VP at Personnel Resources. 

Mary Beth shares so many amazing insights, like: 

• Why you have to go about “wooing” potential employees in the same way that you “woo” clients 
• How not taking a good, hard look at why people are leaving your organization is like filling a Styrofoam cup with a hold in the bottom  
• And, finally, how staying in touch with those A-players that moved on to work for a different company just might result in them “boomeranging” back to you down the road 

Links:

2022 Talent Magazine (Featuring Mary Beth's Article):
blog.thecenterforsalesstrategy.com/talent-magazine-css

Self-Inventory Checklist (Grade Your Company Culture):
uyc.thecenterforsalesstrategy.com/grade-your-company-culture-quiz

Mary Beth Meadows:
linkedin.com/in/marybeth2/

Beth Sunshine:
linkedin.com/in/bethsunshine/

Up Your Culture:
uyc.thecenterforsalesstrategy.com/

TIMESTAMPS:
(05:57) Woo potential employees in the same way that you woo clients
(09:21) If we're not taking a look at why people are leaving, then we've got a styrofoam cup with a hole in the bottom
(12:05) Passive job seeking is like a new pastime
(13:27) You need a marketing piece that tells your story
(14:59) Employee referral programs are great
(17:21) When you lose an A player, keep in touch
(21:57) it's really important that we're open-minded when it comes to hybrid and remote work
(28:45) If you could wave a magic wand and improve anything related to recruitment, what would you change? 

Transcript

Beth Sunshine: (00:15)
Hello and welcome to Culture Over Coffee, a podcast focused on improving company culture and fostering employee engagement. Every week we chat with experts and thought leaders about the latest information and proven practices you can use to reduce regrettable turnover, increase productivity on your team, and retain key customers. So, pour a cup of your favorite brew and join us. I'm your host, Beth Sunshine, SVP at Up Your Culture in the Center for Sales Strategy.

Beth Sunshine: (00:49)
In this episode, we're going to examine the current state of recruitment and discuss how tough the situation is right now for so many. We're also going to break down how to best approach your recruitment efforts in order to find the top talent your organization needs no matter what is going on in the world. Joining me today to talk about it all as a bonafide recruitment expert, Mary Beth Meadows, Senior Executive VP at Personnel Resources. Mary Beth shares so many amazing insights like why you have to go about wooing potential employees in the same way that you woo clients how not taking a good hard look at why people are leaving your organization. It's like filling a styrofoam cup with a hole in the bottom. And finally, how staying in touch with those A players that moved on to work for a different company just might result in them boomeranging back to you down the road.

Beth Sunshine: (01:45)
Well, welcome Mary Beth, and thank you so much for joining me today for Culture Over Coffee. I'm so glad to have you here, Beth. It's great to be here today. Thank you. So, um, I was just in sort of thinking about our conversation that we're gonna have today. I pulled out the magazine you wrote in our talent magazine last year. We have a straight from the expert segment, and you wrote an article, five Tips on improving and streamlining your hiring process, and that was a while ago now. That was our 2022 magazine. So it's been a bit since we've gotten to, uh, tap you for some great recruitment information insight. So we're really glad to be able to do that today during the Culture Over Coffee podcast. I am going to, I've got, I've prepared a bunch of questions to ask you today. We've got a lot to get to in a short period of time.

Beth Sunshine: (02:33)
Are you ready to get started?

Mary Beth Meadows: (02:35)
I'm ready. Let's do it.

Beth Sunshine: (02:36)
Let's do it. All right. So I am fascinated by the strong connection that exists between culture and recruitment. I see it all the time. The better your culture, the more success you'll have recruiting top talent to join your organization. And at the same time, it kind of works the other way. Every hire an organization makes either adds to or detracts from their culture. So it's, it's a cyclical kind of thing. It all starts with recruitment. With that said, it seems that recruitment is going to be even potentially more important, but also tougher this year than it has been in the past. I don't know. I wanna hear from you from your vantage point. What are the top drivers that are making recruitment more challenging right now? And just what do you think about that in general?

Mary Beth Meadows: (03:21)
Yes. Um, what is it they say? If you wanna, if you wanna hear God laugh, tell him you're playing. Right. So many times I heard, um, let's say pre covid, right? I heard employers make statements like, it's never been this hard. Oh my goodness. You know, we, we, we are, we're struggling on, on all fronts, particularly when you think about really skilled positions or positions where there's a finite group of talent. And then my gracious Covid came along and, you know, what a disruptor, right? Yeah. And so I think the first reason that recruitment's gonna continue to be tough is that we're just, we've just not fully rebounded from the disruption of Covid. Um, I think, you know, employees had really real challenges with getting to work. Um, schools were shut down, you know, parents had to learn how to teach their children at home.

Mary Beth Meadows: (04:15)
And in all of those changes that occurred as a nation, as we were getting through covid together, um, it, it's just left kind of a permanent mark mm-hmm. . Um, additionally, if you Google labor participation rates, um, labor participation rates in general are still remain extremely low. And what that mean is means, is that there just aren't as many people interested in working as there are available positions. And then when you sprinkle in that a healthy dose of, there are just some really skilled shortages out there, and if you don't believe me, try to get something done at your home. Right. Uh, try to schedule a, um, uh, an appliance repair man, or try to get a plumber or somebody to come to your home, and you are likely to encounter healthy, healthy weights. Mm-hmm. . And so all of those things together are just really kinda the perfect storm. It's really difficult for employers to find people because in general, people just aren't as interested in working as they used to be.

Beth Sunshine: (05:17)
Very interesting. Uh, it's a candidate's ma market for sure. So what are some of the biggest mistakes that an organization can make in its recruitment efforts? Right now?

Mary Beth Meadows: (05:27)
Here's, here's my favorite mistake that employers make, and I see it all the time, and that is we wait to get started until we're already in a bind. Hmm. Right? Yes. So here is, I think, perhaps one of the biggest cultural shifts as it pertains to the recruitment process. And if, if, if their listeners today don't take away anything from anything else, from what I'm gonna say, I think this is the big aha moment. So if, I hope everybody's ready for it here, we, we go ready. We have to think about wooing potential employees to our business in the same way that we woo clients. Mm-hmm. . So throughout all of our companies, right? We have very specific marketing strategies, sales strategies, pricing strategies, branding strategies, all the things that we do that are, that are centered around the whole idea of bringing customers into our business.

Mary Beth Meadows: (06:20)
Yet time and time again, we just wait until we're short. And then we wanna create, you know, a boring ad and maybe we share it a few places and maybe we don't. And we, we just expect magic to happen. And today's workforce is just not gonna respond to those sorts of bland, generic, um, efforts. Mm-hmm. . Um, I think the number two thing that, um, employers need to do differently is that they have to make the recruiting process easier. It's no secret that in many instances the best candidates are already working yet. Um, so many times I talk to employers whose natural line of thought is to schedule interviews during the workday, which means that working employees have to take p t o or take off work to come pursue an opportunity with my company. And that's just bons, right? Right. , we have to meet people where they are.

Mary Beth Meadows: (07:20)
And if you know, particularly the best talent, right? The people that we're trying to woo those A players, the game changers, the people that we're all really fighting for those diamonds in the rough, you know, the best way to stand out is to figure out when's it convenient for them, right? And can I do a and not just a traditional kind of interview, right? Could I do a teams interview or a Zoom interview or a phone call? Could we do something in advance that's a low risk activity for the applicant? So, so that they can determine, oh gosh, this is something I'm now, once I've determined, hey, I really wanna work for personnel resources or for culture over coffee, or I wanna work wherever this is, then I, maybe I'm willing to do more. And I think that includes not just accessibility and being available, but also really taking a hard look at your screening steps and are they still relevant?

Mary Beth Meadows: (08:16)
Right? This is probably not the market to roll out things that make the pool smaller because it's possible for the pool to be non-existent if we're too picky, which is such a crazy thing for a 27 year recruiting veteran to say, right? I'm supposed to help people boil it down. But I'm saying the pool of people is plenty small. So let's be, let's be realistic. And I think, you know, the third thing that employers I think really need to think about when it comes to potential mistakes is failing to, you know, failing to recognize why good people are leaving.

Beth Sunshine: (08:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mary Beth Meadows: (08:57)
fixing it, right?

Beth Sunshine: (08:59)
Oh yeah.

Mary Beth Meadows: (09:00)
So if we're, so, even if we do the other two things, even if we're recruiting, even if we're proactive in doing all the things that make, you know, we are recruiting for people, um, you know, 24 7, 365 days a year, even if we are being accessible, we are being respectful of people's time. We're making the process easy. If, if we're not taking a look at why people are leaving, then we've got a styrofoam cup with a hole in the bottom, and it doesn't matter how many more people we pour in, we're never gonna get full, right? So, um, so we, it's really, really incumbent on employers to take a hard look. And sometimes that's painful, right? Because what if the problem is me? What if I'm the problem? Right? What if one of the reasons that you know, that people don't wanna work here is that I'm a micromanager, or that my expectations are, are now unrealistic, but whatever it is, employers owe it to themselves and they, and they owe it to the recruitment process to see what they can do to prevent it in the first place.

Beth Sunshine: (10:02)
Okay. That gives us a lot to think about. I just wanna sort of recap because there was so much good stuff in there. So you talked about the importance of a strong talent bank, and I love that you touched upon, it has to be something you focus on 365 days of the year. Right? It can't be something you wait for an opening. Um, when you have a job opening, the very best talent is not sitting around waiting to hear from you. They're working. So I, I love that thought of treating them like prospects, future clients, um, wooing them. You also talked about, um, the value of creating an environment where people thrive so that, you know, if there is a problem, if it's, um, either a cultural problem or maybe, um, something related to a manager that's getting in the way of employee retention, you can fix that, the styrofoam cup. Boy, that, that really will stick with me. And then the need for simplicity. Yeah. That need for simplicity in the application process. That really stuck with me. I recently read, you know, we're putting together our next year's talent magazine right now, so I've got a million stats in my head. I recently read that nearly 60% of job seekers quit online job applications midway through due to their length or their complexity. I don't know if that jives with what,

Mary Beth Meadows: (11:21)
Yes,

Beth Sunshine: (11:23)
That's a lot.

Mary Beth Meadows: (11:24)
You need to lower, we call it in the staffing industry, we call it barrier to entry. Mm-hmm. So we, a low barrier to entry, which means, you know, people are, people are looking for wms, what's in it for me? Right. What's in it? So why do I wanna give 30 minutes of my life to an application process? Would I have no idea what's in it for me? Right? Right. So, so it doesn't even make sense for you and I, what, I wouldn't do that either, right? So why we think that the average job seeker, um, because the other thing that's radically different about recruiting in general, and I think that this is a systemic change that's here to stay, is that passive job seeking is now like a new, it's, it's like a new pastime, right? I can't tell you how many times people reach out to me. They're not really unhappy in what they're doing. They're just wanting to see if, if, if, if, if this is as good as it gets for them. Mm-hmm. , are they missing out? Is there another opportunity where something's better, the benefits better, the compensation's better, the opportunity to learn something new is better, there's better professional development, there's more work-life balance. There's, what is it? So we believe that to be true, and I certainly do that passive job seeking is now kind of a hobby, right? For people.

Beth Sunshine: (12:47)
Interesting.

Mary Beth Meadows: (12:48)
Then, then it really, really resonates, I think and makes sense that you would want people to inquire about you in a way that's as easy for them as possible.

Beth Sunshine: (12:58)
Mm-hmm. , right? I agree. No matter how green someone's grass is, they're always wondering if the grass might not be just a little bit greener. Interesting. That's a, a new hobby. Yeah. Alright, so with that in mind, any pro tips you'd share related to recruitment that our listeners might be able to learn

Mary Beth Meadows: (13:16)
From? Yes. I've got several. So the first one is, if you believe my point about make about, um, kind of making it a year round activity, right? We need a marketing piece. Hmm. We need a marketing piece that tells our story. What do we do? Who do we serve? Why, why, why does, you know, how is our, how does our work matter, right? Those are emotional triggers that can really resonate with a passive job seeker. But then we also need to talk about, you know, you know, benefits, things, anything that you're comfortable sharing that's going to help elicit interest. So I'm really serious when I say we have to woo job seekers in the same way that we have to woo potential customers for our company. It's the same concept. And I wouldn't even go so far as to say particularly, um, for any manager, we use a little business card that's called we, we call it, I like the way you work, and I keep it on my person at all times. Right now I am a girly girl and I am getting ready to go to Vegas. And so when I go to Vegas, I'll be wearing a cross potty and I probably won't have business cards again,

Beth Sunshine: (14:25)
,

Mary Beth Meadows: (14:26)
Right? When I'm other

Beth Sunshine: (14:28)
Than Vegas, you have it with you.

Mary Beth Meadows: (14:29)
Yes. When I'm scooting around town, right? When I'm scooting around town and I'm grocery shopping and I am having dinner, lunch brunch with friends and I'm having dinner with friends, and I am going to the dry cleaners and I encounter people that make a positive impression, um, whether they're working or not, I slip in one of this card and I'd say, listen, you know, you've impressed me, me. If you ever wanna make a change, I'd love to, I'd love to hear from you. So I like the way you work cards. Um, and then also, I'm a big fan of an employee referral program. Not such a big fan of hiring bonuses. And I'll tell you why. So the only time I would be a fan of a hiring bonus is when the position is such a, when the skillset is a skillset of one in a company, there's only one in a company that that in that job, in, in that skillset, right?

Mary Beth Meadows: (15:22)
Okay. Um, so, um, but more often than not, we see companies that are, are doing hiring bonuses for lots of positions. And the reason I'm not a fan of that is because to me that is kind of a slap in the face of your existing employees who are there making it happen. If you have gotten to the point where you're having to hire offer a higher bonus, it's probably a pretty reasonable deduction that you're short-staffed, which means that people that are there now towing the line day in day out are already tired and frustrated. So, you know, seeing that you're willing to pay somebody extra to come in  is probably not gonna make them feel very good about their decision. Stick with your company and could actually temporarily make your problem worse. Right? So, I like it. I like an employee referral bonus. Come up with a dollar amount that you can live with, put some teeth in it, put some criteria that says we only pay it if we end up making it higher.

Mary Beth Meadows: (16:22)
The higher has to work here for 90 days, six months, two weeks, 12 months, whatever it is, so that the return on the investment, right, for the bonus that you're gonna pay makes good financial sense. And I think in doing that, we're sending the message to our employee base, thank you for being here. We value you, help us help you by bringing other good people into our company. So that's why. So that's my, that's my second tip. And then I would say my third tip, you mentioned a phrase earlier. You, you, you said the grass is not always greener. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Couldn't agree more. And particularly in the last two years where we've had, I think it's been called the Great Resignation, right? Where yeah. Um, even great companies have had, you know, unprecedented amounts of turnover because of the lot of the disruptors that were, that were, that were sort of created by Covid.

Mary Beth Meadows: (17:19)
Um, and so I'm a big fan in staying in touch. When you lose an A player, keep in touch, text them, email 'em, um, you know, how's it going? Do you like it? And, and don't make them feel bad about making a decision that they're making because they think it's good for their family. Support them. Say, you know what, we hated to lose you, but you're right, I understand where that schedule or the ability to work from home or that pay increase or whatever it was, was something you couldn't turn down. But let me just say that if anything changes and if this new employer does not deliver on the things that they promised you, we wanna hear from you.

Mary Beth Meadows: (18:12)
I just can't say enough good things about that tactic. And I think too often that as hiring managers and as employers, we, we get our feelings hurt when a good person leaves. And so we tend to kind of get mad and we just, we don't stay in touch because our pride won't allow us, I'm saying, suck it up, , suck it up. People don't, and and don't fall into that trap and, and, and put yourself in their shoes. And frequently there's a boomerang effect and you can take full advantage of it.

Beth Sunshine: (19:00)
Wise, wise words. And I, I've heard it called them, called Boomerang employees. Yes. Um, and it, it does seem as though there's so much to be gained from that. One thing is certainly when they come back, they don't require a lot of training and onboarding. They're pretty much ready to roll right away. They've got the relationships,

Mary Beth Meadows: (19:20)


Beth Sunshine: (19:20)
Experience. Oh, I like it.

Mary Beth Meadows: (19:22)
Fabulous. It's fabulous. And, and I think the other thing is, is that I, I'm a proponent. I I'm a career. I'm a lifelong learner, right? I'm one of those people that I enjoy reading, I enjoy getting better. I enjoy new learning, new things. And I think that learning comes in waves. So when people leave your company, right, and then they come back and they already start with this base knowledge, then I think one of the reasons that, at least in my experience, that, that these employees have come back and made such a powerful impact is it's because they, their learning took them to the next level. So now when they come back, right, the, the, the things that they're focused on are not the, not the elementary things. I mean, they're really digging in and understanding the why behind why we do things. Why is this important? And, and that's really how productivity, it's where it, it's, it's all the good stuff. When you think about employee engagement, and we know, right? That when you have really highly engaged employees that as companies, that's when our profits climb. It's when the work gets easier, it's more fun. I mean, it, it's just, it brings all the good

Beth Sunshine: (20:35)
Stuff it does. I love that it brings all the good stuff. Yes, we set up your culture. When we work with clients at the end of year two, in our two year program, we work with them to build what we, we call a culture video so that they can showcase what their culture looks like and use that in marketing, in a marketing strategy for recruitment. Um, so I, I, I we're always kind of thinking about how to tie those two things together when you were talking, I actually found this for those listening, you can't see what I'm holding up. But, um, one of our up your culture clients built a card, just like what you're talking about. Yes. So you're impressive. Let's talk and then there's information on the back. I thought that was really clever. Something you're recommending too. Very, very cool. Yes. So let's talk about the world of work and how today's work models impact recruitment. I know hybrid and remote work models have broadened the talent talent pool in a big way for a lot of businesses. But these same work models also pose some challenges. Mm-hmm. , so I figured we could talk about that for a minute. What trends are you seeing related to the world of work, hybrid versus remote versus in office, and then how do you ta tackle that hot topic in the world of recruitment?

Mary Beth Meadows: (21:50)
So I think you have to tackle it with a healthy dose of reality, right? And I also think that as employers, we have to, it's, it's really important that we're open-minded. And just because a position has or has not been remote or, or office based in the past, doesn't mean that it could or couldn't necessarily in the future, right? Mm-hmm. . So the first thing that, that I think has changed is that during, particularly during Covid, right? When we talked, we, we had just so many weird things happen. In fact, many days I woke up and I kept thinking, and I, am I on an episode of punk? I mean, is Ashton Kutcher gonna jump out somewhere? And you know, cause there were just some so many odd things that I, you know, the whole idea that some work was not essential, right? Mm-hmm. , the only essential workers needed to go to work just kind of blew my mind, right? Yeah. So, so we have to be open-minded, first of all. And, and I'll say that during all of that, um, we're in Dothan, Alabama. We're in southeast Alabama. Historically, remote work was not very prevalent here. In fact, in our own company, in my own work team, I directly, um, I have directly about 20 employees that are, that are under me. And I had, um, one remote employee at the time. I now have seven.

Beth Sunshine: (23:12)
Hmm. Right?

Mary Beth Meadows: (23:12)
Big difference. So, so big difference, right? Um, and I think, you know, but I also, in, in the seven employees that I have working remotely are all wildly successful employees. So I think for some employers, there's a fear. What if work is not happening? If I let people work from home, what if work is not happening, right? Mm-hmm. . So we have to be better managers. We have to get better at holding people accountable. We have to get better at communicating what the expectations are, right? Um, and so that we can make those arrangements successful. But in our situation, it has been very, very successful. Having said that, everybody in our company can't be a remote employee, right? So all positions do not lend themselves to a remote work environment. Conversely, I had a remote job 20 something years ago. I hated it, . But for some people, it's just not fun, right?

Mary Beth Meadows: (24:12)
It's not fun. So I think that, um, you need to use remote work as an option when it makes sense for your company. Mm-hmm. . So in our situation, we had, um, we had, it gave us access to talent that we otherwise would not have had. Okay? Um, so for, for a multitude of reasons. We had a staff member been this a long time that was moving, her husband got transferred, we thought we were gonna lose her. And then, you know, kind of at the ninth hour, I'm like thinking to myself, Hey, dummy, , you don't. So I said, Hey, what would you consider? And she's like, I would consider, I don't wanna leave. I, of course, I would consider it's been, it's been, you know, very successful. Ha uh, I have, uh, was able to hire another employee who, um, she homeschools her children.

Mary Beth Meadows: (25:02)
So for her remote work is an, is something that was really important to her for, in order to make that work for her family. So that was, so I have to have access to people that I otherwise wouldn't have access to. Now, the flip side of that is, now that remote work is more of a thing here, right? It also means that I'm completely, I'm competing for talent, not just Right, not just on a geographic basis, right? So in our bigger companies, so we have about 75 staff members total in all three of our entities. We lost some companies to a California based employer that figured out, oh gosh, you know, we can hire these, you know, this, this company has some great talent. Let me get over here and, and, and, and get 'em. And they did. Right? Um, so we, so we lost people.

Mary Beth Meadows: (25:54)
But I think that, um, you know, I, I, I think overall that the world is evolving, and I think we as employers, which is why I think it's important that if you are leading an organization, if you're a hiring manager, if you're a C-suite, um, if you're an individual entrepreneur, right? Mm-hmm. , you have to arm yourself with these facts. And you have to be willing to consider things that you haven't considered before. And to really think through it and to figure out why am I opposed to this? Is there a good fundamental reason? Or is it just because I haven't done it before? Mm-hmm. , and we've got, you know, we've gotta be open minded. And I'll say this too, an interesting phenomenon that, and I don't have a, I haven't pulled a statistic, a quotable statistic, but I bet if you got on our friend Google that we could find one in a minute.

Mary Beth Meadows: (26:43)
I have noticed. So we as a temporary help company, so we have a, we have a temporary help company too. I've noticed that on average, the average hours worked of our employees is down. So I think another big trend that's happening, and I hear all the time, is that employees don't want to work. They barely wanna work a 40 hour week. And, and I'm, I'm, I'm generalizing, right? I'm not saying that there isn't anybody out there. I'm also not saying that that makes people bad if they feel that way. What I am saying is that more than ever, I think people are prioritizing family, friends want balance in their life. They do not want to be a slave to their job, particularly if it's a job they really don't even enjoy. Right? Which is how we get back to, or, or would we, would, would I wanna work for me?

Mary Beth Meadows: (27:35)
Right? So, um, so, so I think working less is kind of a trend, the remote hybrid trend. Mm-hmm. And I think it's here to stay. I think it's going to continue. And I think you're gonna see people. I also think that even employees that may or may not want to be hybrid or remote or in office today, I think over the course of a career, your feeling feelings on those would change, right? If you lived somewhere where you had a 45 minute commute and you had school-aged children, and you were thinking, wow, if I didn't have to give up that 45 minute commute one way I could get my laundry done, I could do my meal planning, I could be much more productive while I'm at home, and it would make me a better parent, and I'd be a, you know what I mean? And then the children, you know, leave and go off to school and you're like, oh, I miss interaction outside the home. So I, I also think that just because somebody is choosing something today doesn't necessarily mean that that's the thing that they want for life.

Beth Sunshine: (28:37)
Mm-hmm. Okay. So let me ask you this, and we'll make this the last question of the day. Although, boy, I could talk to you forever, , if you could wave a magic wand and just improve anything related to recruitment, what would you change?

Mary Beth Meadows: (28:53)
Two things. Okay. So the first one is, I would combine all of the background. Ch I would combine all the databases. And this is actually doable. I do not know why our federal government does not do this. But currently in, currently when you're running a criminal background check mm-hmm. , there are all different kinds of criminal data, criminal background check databases. And there isn't one master database. Coincidentally, there's also not the e-verify database that is required for most states. I think there's seven or eight states in the country that do not require e-verify. It's not integrated. And the irs, um, website. So that to prevent people from using other people's social security, none of that's integrated. So if we could have one database, and you could see Unequivocably, not only is this person not a murderer in Alabama, but guess what? They're not a murderer anywhere.

Mary Beth Meadows: (29:45)
Yay. Right? And I know that the social that they've given me is in fact their social, and I know that they're not, uh, that they're e-verify approved, right? So one singular single database, Hmm. Amazing thing would be, I wish our high schools, I had a high school senior, uh, my daughter graduated high school in 2018, and it astounded me how much of a fluffier that was. Now she would, it would, she would be mortified to hear me saying this, right? Because they had a good time. But I, I hear this over and over with my friends that have, um, high school seniors. There isn't a lot of real work that happens. We have a lot of fun, and I think we can redeploy some of that time into a curriculum that really helps students understand what's coming next when they enter the workforce. I think we get it backwards.

Mary Beth Meadows: (30:39)
I think we're pressuring people, particularly young, young adults, to decide what they wanna do for college in many instances before they have any idea what the working world is about, or even the kinds of professions that are out there. And so I see so many people that have misspent money on a degree that wasn't for them, or they get into college and realize college isn't for them, or they bypass another career that could be a trade or a career technical program where they might actually, with less education, less costs, make more money and be happier. So there were a way those, I, I know you said one magic wand, but I want to

Beth Sunshine: (31:20)
Get two,

Mary Beth Meadows: (31:21)
I could have two

Beth Sunshine: (31:22)


Mary Beth Meadows: (31:23)
Things that I would fix.

Beth Sunshine: (31:25)
I'd give you two. Those were good. Gives us a lot to think about just approaching young adults sooner. And, um, you're right, there are a lot of wasted college degrees and how can we help bypass that? Very good stuff. Thank you so much, Mary Beth, for the time that you have spent today talking about Culture over Coffee with me. You shared a ton of great information, a lot of really specific tactical ideas that our listeners can take and try right away. I know, I mean, there's a lot of valuable stuff in this. So for those listening, um, I am gonna draw Mary Beth's LinkedIn information in the show notes. You might wanna connect with her. I sure would if I were you. Um, and also I'm gonna add the link for the 2022 Talent Magazine. Um, there's a whole up your culture section in it, but there's also a section on recruitment, selection and development, and that's where you'll see Mary Bet's article in the recruitment section.

Beth Sunshine: (32:21)
It's a, it's a great article one you'll wanna check out. And then finally, I'm going to add a link to the self-inventory checklist. So if you'd like, you can take a few minutes and just get a better sense of what your company culture or employee engagement might look like right now, and think about how that might tie into recruitment for you. So thank you everyone for listening. Thank you Mary Beth for joining me. It's been a pleasure. It has pleasure. Oh my gosh, it has been a, a pleasure for me to, it is a journey to up your culture and elevate, uh, employee engagement. So to all those listening, enjoy the journey.

Beth Sunshine: (32:57)
So much for spending time with us on Culture Over Coffee. If you've enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe and join us for every episode. For more helpful information on the topics of company culture and employee engagement, visit us@upyourculture.com.