In this episode, we’re discussing a topic that’s on the minds of many in these times of tough recruitment: employee retention. In particular, how to hang on to your talent superstars.
Joining Beth are two guests who have a long history of retaining their top performers: Mike Searson, Vice President/Local Sales, and Doug Young, Market Sales Manager, both at Corus Entertainment.
Together, they make some amazing points, like:
Self-Inventory Culture Checklist (Grade Your Company Culture):
Up Your Culture:
(03:08) Measure the engagement level of your employees regularly
(05:20) Everyone wants to feel like they're included
(09:30) What are some of the best ways that company leaders, managers can engage their top talent and keep them motivated?
(13:23) A manager's job is to remove the speed bumps
(15:18) You have to manage the individuals on your team as individuals
(16:22) What's one piece of advice that you would give leaders?
(18:19) Find the right complement of people for your team
(20:14) What trends do you see looking forward when it comes to employee retention?
(24:49) If you could wave a magic wand and solve a single issue with employee retention, what would that be?
Beth Sunshine: (00:15)
Hello and welcome to Culture Over Coffee, a podcast focused on improving company culture and fostering employee engagement. Every week we chat with experts and thought leaders about the latest information and proven practices you can use to reduce regrettable turnover, increase productivity on your team, and retain key customers. So, pour a cup of your favorite brew and join us. I'm your host, Beth Sunshine, SVP at Up Your Culture and the Center for Sales Strategy.
Beth Sunshine: (00:49)
In this episode, we're discussing a topic that's on the minds of many in these times of tough recruitment, employee over attention. In particular, how to hang onto your superstars. Joining me are two guests who have a long history of retaining their top performers. Mike Searson, Vice President, local Sales at Corus Entertainment, and Doug Young Market Sales Manager at Corus Entertainment. Together they help us understand why it's important to regularly measure the engagement level of your teams, how leaders shouldn't force employees to work in ways that don't match their individual talents and why practicing empathy can go a long way towards fostering trust and loyalty with your people. All right, so welcome Mike and Doug. It is, gosh, it's such a treat to be able to spend this time with both of you. I can't believe you both had time available for this at the same time. So thank you for joining me today for a little Culture Over Coffee.
Mike Searson: (01:53)
It's great to be here. Thanks for having us, Beth. Looking forward to it.
Beth Sunshine: (01:57)
Me too. I've been really looking forward to digging into the topic of employee retention with you and gaining some insight from you about, you know, what you're seeing globally. Only 20% of the workforce is engaged at work, which to me is just mind blowing. And the number of actively disengaged employees is on the rise at up your culture. We define employee engagement as the emotional commitment and willingness to give your best at work. So that's just a lot of people who are not feeling connected to their work, not feeling committed to the companies they work for, and they're probably not showing up to work really ready to give it at all. Their all, I don't know, which is worse, having those people stay or having them leave, probably between the two. It's better not to have disengaged employees in the organization, but it's tough when they leave. So that's what I wanna really dig into with you and get your thoughts on, on the subject. Are you ready to get started?
Mike Searson: (02:56)
Yes, for sure. Let's do
Beth Sunshine: (02:58)
It. Okay. All right. So I'm just gonna kind of go around my screen here and start with you, Mike. Employee recruitment, it's been a hot topic in both Canada and the us. We're both experiencing a tough labor market right now, and I recently heard someone say that retention is the new recruitment, and that really resonated with me. So I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Mike Searson: (03:21)
Yeah, I think that's certainly true. Granted, I think if your focus is on hiring great talent, that shouldn't be a new phenomenon. Um, and that's certainly been, um, I think every company that's, that's their intention. Yeah. Um, we, we've been pretty privileged to have, have gotten it right, I think more than we've gotten it wrong over the last decade or so. Um, but you know, I think you also, beyond just hiring great people, you have to make sure that they're engaged to your point on, you know, that's startling statistic. Um, and we measure a Corus, um, engagement on a quarterly basis. And, you know, really one of the things we talk about, certainly Doug and I talk about is, you know, really gives you permission to go deeper with people and, and try to get a better understanding about, you know, how they were feeling when they put in that score, which may have been a, a, a good score or, or perhaps an opportunity for us to make some improvements.
Beth Sunshine: (04:20)
I like that. So after you do your engagement survey, you share that information back and get input on it, talk about it. It's, it's more of a transparent experience.
Mike Searson: (04:31)
Ver very transparent, so, you know, process. Um, I sort of do a summary for my entire organization spoke 260 people, and we sort of share the top line themes that we see mm-hmm. and then the, the data is broken out at a regional level. So Doug in Calgary would be able to go in, it's obviously all anonymous, but see the data and start to see the themes in his particular region, which might differ greatly from another, um, part of, of the organization. It certainly does.
Beth Sunshine: (05:02)
That makes sense. So Doug, you might even wanna touch on that a bit, but I'd love to hear from you just what are some of the biggest challenges you've faced when it comes to retaining strong employees or keeping them engaged?
Doug Young: (05:15)
It's funny, and we're in the communications business and communication's probably the number one thing. Always. They, everyone wants to feel like they're included and it's not a behind the scenes kind of attitude where I didn't know we were doing this. If we can communicate over and over again with what's going on and what our plan is and where the vision is, I think that really keeps, keeps 'em engaged because they, they see that there's a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not a train. So I think that's a big, that's a big thing with, with most of my employees. I have like 24 on my team and most of them are sales reps or account managers. So they're, they're engaged cuz they're out in the field talking to their customers, trying to help them. They, they have a different perspective, but I've got some inside sales people that are basically data entry people, making sure that the orders stay on tv, keeping them engaged is harder cause we don't see them as much.
Doug Young: (05:59)
They're virtually working now, they work from their home. So I have weekly calls with them just to say how it's going. And it's not so much of a business call as it is a personal call to say, how you feeling? What's going on in your life, what's going on with your families? And I think that's important because we don't connect like we used to ever since Covid, it's been a little harder to, to get in touch. We have sales meetings in person now finally, and we're getting together with those people, but it's not the same with some of the support staff. So I think that's been the hardest thing is to make sure that they're engaged. That uh, cuz you can sit at home and sort of wallow in gi. I don't feel like I'm part of the company anymore. I'm working on the business, but not in it anymore. Cuz we gotta have sexy business. We've got tv, radio, fun stuff that's due. And when you're not actually in the building, seeing those stars and talking to those people Yeah. It doesn't feel the same.
Beth Sunshine: (06:45)
That makes sense to me. That's right. I I can see how just the vibe of, you know, being in the building is such a draw for people. Interesting challenge. I like the way you said that. We're in the communications business and yet communications is our biggest challenge. I I think that's one of the most common things I'm hearing these days that communications is, is tough. Mike, anything you're seeing as far as challenges that you're, you're facing or, um, anyone in your, your company is facing related to retention?
Mike Searson: (07:16)
Um, yeah, just sort of building on what Doug was saying, I think, I mean we are, we are in the communications business, no doubt, but we're also in show business and one of the drums we're really trying to beat right now, further to what Doug was saying is that more and more of our people are becoming not as connected or disconnected to the product, whether that's radio or, or, or linear television. Not seeing those people that, that actually put those broadcasts together. We, we sort of took that for granted before the pandemic sent us all home. Um, and, and that really needs to be a key focus for us for, for our, for um, outside sales people who are in front of customers, being able to articulate the passion and the excitement and, and um, and all of the great things that we're doing to support our communities from coast to coast. Um, that in large part doesn't come from a one pager from research that has to come from spending time with the people that are actually producing that content. So that's an area I think of focus and we'll see how that, um, impacts our culture. And I have no doubt, um, to, to Doug's point, people working on the business, not, not not in the business. Um, you know, I I think that's gonna play a, a, a big role as well.
Beth Sunshine: (08:33)
Yeah, interesting. What remote work or hybrid work is, is changing in our world today. We actually have a couple of podcast episodes dedicated to that because it, it just seems to be such a potent thing that, that employees are dealing with and business leaders are dealing with. So I'll wanna keep up with you and sort of here, I like the way you articulated it though and, um, just, you know, interacting in the world of show business, it, it actually is sort of an employee perk. It, it, it's a benefit that now you have to figure out how to build back in. I interesting thought. So Mike's sticking with you, obviously when it comes to retention, we wanna go about keeping our most talented performers, and I know talent is important to you in general. You're, you're only going to bring on people who you believe are highly talented once you get them there, you wanna keep them from your experience. What are some of the best ways that company leaders, managers can engage their top talent and really keep them motivated or feeling that passion you were describing?
Mike Searson: (09:41)
Well, you know, I owe you actually a lot of the credit, Beth cuz you know, in the early years of at Corus we learned a lot about talent, um, about the different talent themes that that, that our top sellers have. And one of the things we sort of learn and continue to, to, um, ideate on is this notion of not trying to get people to do things or not talented at, which seems so simple. Um, but, you know, one of the areas whereby, you know, we've made I think profound change at Corus over the last six years is investing in support and services that are gonna help our salespeople get better. Again, not revolutionary, but we've been hyper disciplined at finding ways to invest in research and media strategy, backend sales support, project management, creative services, things that are frontline salespeople aren't necessarily experts at, but rely on heavily in terms of being able to, to drive the kind of revenue growth that we've been able to enjoy quite frankly over the last six years.
Mike Searson: (10:44)
So for me it's about investment, um, which I, I appreciate is easy to say and much harder to do, but my common belief is, has always been Beth, that that companies don't have a resource issue. They have an allocation issue. Where are you choosing to spend money versus where are the, the ways in which you're gonna garner the, the biggest return on your investment. Mm-hmm. So sometimes that might mean making hard choices and, and maybe walking away from those season tickets to, to, to your favorite sports team or, or, you know, relocating some things in order to provide the kind of support that your salespeople and quite frankly your clients really need.
Beth Sunshine: (11:25)
Yeah. Interesting. I'm, I like what you're saying about investment and, and allocating the, the money, your investment in the right way. I also, uh, still kind of thinking about what you said at the beginning, um, about how, you know, you're, you're really keenly aware of the talents that are necessary for excellence and in a sales role. Um, you know, if you're investing in your organization in a way, bringing on other roles to handle parts of the sales process so that your sellers can really just focus on doing what they do best. You know, putting a square peg in a square hole and letting them really thrive, that, that's a form of investment unto itself. And I think that's a really interesting way to look at that.
Mike Searson: (12:12)
Well, and I, you know, I don't want to paint a picture where whereby we're, um, you know, the, the the model or, or or we've created a perfect scenario. We've got all sorts of blind spots and, and areas by which we need to improve finance is, is certainly one. We've got some significant speed bumps that are, that are still in the way of, of our salespeople really being optimized. Um, and, and when I say optimized, obviously spending the maximum amount of time in front of their customers and looking for their next big key account mm-hmm. . But we're keenly aware of some of those things and there's things that are easy to, easier to fix and some things that quite frankly require some collaboration internally that isn't as easy to, to just turn on or off as, as I'm sure you can appreciate.
Beth Sunshine: (12:52)
Yeah, no, I, I agree. Doug, anything you would add as far as good ways to engage top talent and keep them motivated?
Doug Young: (13:02)
I think constant communication is the number one thing is, is just checking in to see. So how can I get into your business to help you grow your sales? They're all, everybody's motivated in a certain way in sales and it's, how do I get better? How do I meet more customers? How do I, how do I drive revenue? How do I make my bonus? All those things that are really intrinsically important to the reps. Um, my job is to take the speed bumps out. How do I fix it so you can see more people? And um, I think that's been the number one thing. You can't be selfish as a manager. You have to be really focused on the people that work for you. Empathy for where they're going through. And we've had ups and downs over the years. Um, one year I'm a really smart sales manager cuz we make budget the next year.
Doug Young: (13:41)
I'm not as smart . So, so, um, it's a, it's a, it's a business that I've been really blessed to have really good people in. I've got some people that have been here 25 years. Um, they're not going anywhere. Um, we just had one retire who's now 20 years. Um, now we're getting to the point where we need some new talent coming in. Um, media's not quite as sexy as it was 10 years ago. Um, we have different needs because we have television, radio, digital, creative services. We sell a lot of things now where I was strictly radio when I started. So we need people that are real marketing, brain savvy, uh, when we're recruiting now I need people that are really customer focused that understand all aspects of marketing, not just TV and radio, but they've also gotta be a fan of TV and radio cuz you gotta transfer that confidence from, from their, their mouths to the clients to understand that it's still relative. And I think that's our biggest challenge with TV and Radio Nows is getting credibility that it's still a viable mass medium. Um, we've, we've been outmarketed by the, the Googles and the Facebooks of the world in the last few years and we need to show that that's still the biggest mass reach is those two mediums.
Beth Sunshine: (14:46)
That makes perfect sense. You know, listening to the longevity of your staff, you can see why we, it was so important to us to get you on this podcast to talk about retention. You, you're obviously doing something right when you talk about communication and understanding, um, what motivates your people, how much of that is individualized? Like, do you need to do something different with each person that you manage or, or how much of it is, you know, pretty commonplace? You can, you can treat everyone the same in a certain way.
Doug Young: (15:18)
I guess a similarity, everybody gets a sales report every week so we know how they did. Mm-hmm. know what, know what kind of results they're getting. So that part's easier. But everybody is really different. Um, some of 'em have better problem solving skills in others. Some of them need some handholding on lead generations. Some of them need, they're all different. Mm-hmm. it's like coaching a hockey team or being a parent. It's like having 12 kids. Like I definitely def have to be treat them all differently cuz they are different people and they're all successful in their own way, but differently. Yeah. Um, no one's really the same. And I think that's where, uh, talent focus management that we took with CSS made me a better manager because it taught me how to make them do things they're really good at and not so much for the things that they don't like to do. Cuz it, it increases productivity and it's worked really well. I've got some high performers that love the way I manage 'em because I treat them differently than the other people in their team.
Beth Sunshine: (16:09)
Yeah. Makes perfect sense to, to
Doug Young: (16:11)
Me it works. It just works.
Beth Sunshine: (16:12)
Yeah. Okay. Question for both of you. I'll let you decide who goes first, but I'd love to hear for any organizations, leaders who are listening today that are currently struggling with employee retention, what's one piece of advice that you would give them?
Mike Searson: (16:28)
Doug Young: (16:30)
Me. It's empathy.
Beth Sunshine: (16:32)
Doug Young: (16:32)
They sometimes they just want to vent. They don't want you to solve it. They just want you to say, this has been a tough day.
Beth Sunshine: (16:37)
Doug Young: (16:38)
And cuz you get a lot of rejection in sales. It's not a, it's not a, uh, day where every day's Rosie's and it's a great job for schizophrenics cuz one day you're hate it. So, but it really is a just a little empathy. Just say, listen, no, we'll, we'll get through this. It'll be okay. Yeah. Um, so if stuff just happens that you can't control
Beth Sunshine: (16:57)
Love that people need to know, care about 'em, huh?
Mike Searson: (17:00)
I'd agree. I, I mean Doug and I have both been married for, I I'm 20 years this year. I think there's a lot of similarities to, to being married as well. Um, listening. Um, this job is n not nowhere near as as easy as it was. It was never easy, but it certainly was, I think less complicated 20 years ago. Um, 25 years ago, 10 years ago. You know, consolidation is really, um, whether it's N B C U Paramount or, or Corus or Bell or Rogers, you know, we're all doing more and putting more pressure on, uh, our product of people. So really understanding how and, and what makes each individual tick as Doug was describing and then trying to minimize those roadblocks. It's, it's not easy and, and I, I think it's, we're we, sometimes we can make it a little bit easier for people to give up. Um, so having that em empathetic ear. Um, and, and in some cases, like as Doug said, it's not about solving the problem, but in some cases it's about, it is about helping them solve the problem. Um, cuz it's hard to find money, it's easy to let it slip through your fingers. Yeah.
Beth Sunshine: (18:06)
Yeah. So a combination of knowing when they actually need help solving the problem and knowing when they just need to share or talk and, and have a manager that cares about them, who feels empathetic.
Mike Searson: (18:19)
And I I would also add Beth, you know, Doug's team in Calgary is a great example and, and quite frankly our teams across the country are as well. When you, when you, and there's a lot of similarities to sports, um, when you build a great team and culture around it, it's easier for people to thrive. Um, you raise sort of the overarching expectation. But furthermore, and I think one of the, the great challenges of the pandemic, um, that we're all, I think we're all just sort of getting back to some sense of spending time in the office, is that organic conversation, troubleshooting that happens peer to peer. Um, that is a, a when you, when you have a really good and strong team that, that are, are a collective of really strong individuals that, that make up an an outstanding sales organization, they really help themselves. And that's, or help each other, I should say. And that to me is, is um, you know, the, the real opportunity, I think with, with investing in talent and ensuring that you've got the right mix of people, compliment of people on your team, whether, like I said, whether that's a sales organization or your, or your high school football team.
Beth Sunshine: (19:27)
Yeah. The dynamics getting it right. Creating concrete, creating that environment in which people thrive.
Mike Searson: (19:34)
Yep. Absolutely. And knowing that everyone knows what their role is, you know, we, we, everyone plays a very critical role in terms of moving the ball down the field or achieving your sales results. Um, and as Doug described, you know, he spends a, an incredible amount of time with, in with his insight team because quite frankly they, they're are offensive linemen. They're the people that are, that are cr creating a, a safe space for our quarterbacks and running backs and, and and wide receivers to, to move the ball down the field. We couldn't do it without them. So if they're not That's
Beth Sunshine: (20:05)
A great analogy.
Mike Searson: (20:06)
We're in deep trouble.
Beth Sunshine: (20:08)
Yeah. As a great analogy. I can, yeah. I, I I can picture it. So Doug, coming to you, what trends do you see looking forward when it comes to employee retention and how can companies prepare for those changes that you think they're going to experience?
Doug Young: (20:25)
My team, because they're senior year, I've got a gotta come up with succession plan for lots of 'em, right? Yeah. So I've got two or three years left in a few of them and, um, they're rockstar reps that they're really hard to replace. Um, finding marketing, uh, focused people I think has been my, my goal. I've hired two in the last year. They came from their clients before they were buying advertising from us. They understood our business. I really thought they were spec spectacularly bright. Um, I think that's been my, my focus. I'm not looking for so much for a salesperson as I used to be. I need a marketing expert.
Beth Sunshine: (20:59)
Doug Young: (20:59)
I box in the meeting with instant credibility, instant, instant charisma that goes, Hey, I've sat in your seat. I know what you're going through. I can help. And I think that's been my biggest thing. And I, all reps that I've had in the last 10 years, some guys just sold radio for 20 years and we're very, very successful at it. But now it's, it's harder for
Beth Sunshine: (21:18)
Doug Young: (21:19)
They've got so many other things to sell. So bringing in new people that sort of have a wider, uh, focus, I think it's really been helping our team and it's, we've got some really bright new stars on the horizon, but getting people to apply is harder
Beth Sunshine: (21:33)
Doug Young: (21:33)
That finding the talent, cuz people, we used to put up a, a resume online and you get 50 resumes the next day. It doesn't happen now.
Beth Sunshine: (21:41)
Doug Young: (21:42)
We have to sort of really scour the bushes to find out those new marketing stars that can come and become, uh, successful in our company.
Beth Sunshine: (21:50)
I like, I like the trend you're describing though, of understanding that what you need in a role is changing as the business is changing. So who you're looking for out there is gonna change and now it's just a matter of attracting those people. Yeah.
Doug Young: (22:06)
Are new compensation plans helping that? I think it's, we were a hundred percent commissioned Salesforce for a long time now. There's a guarantee and a bonus plan that makes it easier for people that are millennials that weren't really comfortable with taking all that risk. Yeah. Um, so we're gonna get a salary no matter what, and that's been helping.
Beth Sunshine: (22:23)
Oh, good. Good. Yeah, I think that that is, uh, something that the newer, younger generations are really attracted to. And I also think you're probably going to open the door to those who don't have experience yet. They may have all the talents you need, you know, the innate ability you need to be successful, but they don't have the resume so they don't have the confidence and you're opening the door to those people too.
Doug Young: (22:46)
Beth Sunshine: (22:47)
Mike, how about you? Anything to add as far as trends you're seeing or you know, what you predict for the future when it comes to employee retention?
Mike Searson: (22:56)
Um, yeah, well I guess a few thoughts. One is, you know, I think that the paradigm has, has shifted from, you know, if you're, if you're wi veteran retires, um, organically through the business, that you would typically go to the university and find the next sort of marketing grad and bring them in and nurture them and train them and bring them up through the, the, the farm system if you will. I think there's one of the trends I think we're, we are certainly seeing, and I, and I think we'll continue, um, is that there's a whole bunch of 40 year old folks, pl 40 plus folks who have either been displaced, um, or who are unsatisfied Hmm. In, in their current roles that, that may not have looked at. Um, media companies in the past may have thought that they needed that five or 10 years experience or whatever silly thing we would put in a, in a job posting.
Mike Searson: (23:53)
Um, but, you know, as, as we're looking for talent, I think we need to definitely think beyond and, and as Doug described, you know, we're re really on a hunt to look for media strategists. So, you know, maybe it's people, we don't have an out-of-home side of our business, but maybe it's looking at people in the out-of-home sector, an area that we never would've looked at in the past because they didn't have radio experience or television experience. Mm-hmm. . So really broadening our horizons, I think is, is gonna both sort of support what, what we're seeing in the marketplace in terms of some of the, the tough news that you're hearing from all sorts of tech companies and, and other places that are doing restructuring at the moment. Those are, those are opportunities for us.
Beth Sunshine: (24:32)
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're exactly right. So actually, um, your plans are going to disrupt the retention of probably your competitors in the area. So, uh, I like the way you're thinking. So last question for each of you. If you could wave a magic wand, if you had the ability to make any change you wanted and you could make one thing easier to accomplish when it comes to retaining your people, keeping them feeling engaged and invested, showing up to work physically, but also showing up to work with that passion you're describing, really showing up emotionally, what would you wave your magic wand and get
Mike Searson: (25:20)
You go done?
Doug Young: (25:22)
Yeah, this is a tough one. Um, yeah, I think being together more, there's a certain energy that we get. We have our sales meeting every Tuesday. They stay around all day because it's the hunger of, Hey, how's your day going? What did you do? There's a, it's a real team and I think if I could be, if I say anything, it's just getting them together more often and, and sharing their successes and their wins. Cuz it, it's contagious and it, I think it really helps. I'm in the same boat as you. I can help you and, and managers. We've had some absolutely phenomenal sales meetings the last three weeks just because the energy's back that this is a fun business. It's cus customers are having amazing success. Everything we're doing is working. Uh, we're blowing the doors off of retailers. We're selling trucks and cars and all the things you're supposed to do when with, with advertisers. It's really working and we're sharing those stories and that's been the fun part.
Beth Sunshine: (26:12)
Mm. I like that. I think it'd be a great thing to, to wave your wand for. What about you, Mike? What would you do? What'd you get?
Mike Searson: (26:19)
Um, I, uh, we put on a pretty good run as Doug was started describing businesses really good for us. We've had eight quarters of success of revenue growth. So it's, it's not about results. So, um, which is, which is very encouraging. So for me, I think that if I could wave my magic wand, it would be to, to, um, uh, get better support on the finance side. So what I mean by that, we have, if you buy television from, from us or radio or, or, um, or, or digital video or creative services, you get four different experiences on the backend where four different unique systems that support those businesses, which makes it a little bit clunky for both the client, and I shouldn't say little, makes it clunky for both the client and, and the, uh, the salesperson. Hmm. So if I could waive my magic wand, I'd have one system whereby, um, you provide one credit card or one credit application and your, uh, experience is seamless with Corus. I think that would, that would, um, greatly benefit our, our salespeople and, um, and also our clients.
Beth Sunshine: (27:28)
Hmm. I hope you both get the opportunity to wave your magic wand. I think those are two really good things. Bringing your people together with purpose to kind of spread the contagion and also streamlining processes. We see that across the board with all of the companies we work with that, um, processes that are clunky and, and we all have them. They definitely get in the way of engagement. Well, thank you both for spending time with me today. I, I wish we had more time. I could talk culture over coffee with you for a lot longer, but you've shared a lot of great information, some ideas. I, I feel like, um, for, you know, our listeners who aren't familiar with Corus as intimately as they could be, um, you've given some great information about just what you're experiencing and, um, I definitely demonstrated the kind of wonderful organization that you are.
Beth Sunshine: (28:21)
Um, for those listening, I'm going to drop Mike and Doug's LinkedIn information in the show notes so that you can connect with them if they'd like, if you'd like. I think they're, it'd be great people to be connected with on LinkedIn. Um, and also in case you listen to all this and you began to wonder what your current culture likes, I'm also going to add a link to a self-inventory checklist so you can get a sense for how your organization or your business unit is doing in the areas that we know lead to employee engagement and will help you maintain really strong retention. So Mike, Doug, thank you both for spending time with me today.
Mike Searson: (29:00)
Thank you, Beth. It was wonderful to see you again. And, and, um, thanks for having us.
Beth Sunshine: (29:06)
Ah, loved it. And I, I look forward appreciate it to, uh, seeing you again, uh, hopefully soon. And thank you to everyone listening. It is a true journey to up your culture and elevate employee engagement. Enjoy that journey. Thanks so much for spending time with us. I'm Culture Over Coffee. If you've enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe and join us for every episode. For more helpful information on the topics of company culture and employee engagement, visit email@example.com.