Culture Over Coffee

Secrets to Success with a Hybrid Work Model with JC Campese

February 23, 2023 Beth Sunshine Season 2 Episode 7
Culture Over Coffee
Secrets to Success with a Hybrid Work Model with JC Campese
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, we’re discussing some of the continuing frustrations and points of friction that persist in many hybrid work models. More importantly, we’re going to uncover some of the secret ways to find success in virtual spaces.

And who better to help break down the current state of hybrid work than JC Campese, Vice President and Market Manager at CMG?

JC provides so many amazing insights, such as: 

  • If you’re asking employees to change their work cadence, you better have a good reason “why” 
  • How, if you’re a manager, doing just an inch more than what your salespeople expect, either positively or negatively, will feel like a mile.  
  • And, finally, the importance of your most talented people understanding the value of “their seat on the bus” 

About Up Your Culture:
Up Your Culture, an employee engagement and company culture firm, was designed by The Center for Sales Strategy which has almost 40 years of experience improving business performance.


Manager Tips - Working With a Remote Team:

JC Campese:

Beth Sunshine:

Up Your Culture:

(04:32) The greatest points of friction people are feeling with hybrid these days
(06:35) If you're asking your employees to change their cadence, you better give them a very valid "why."
(10:11) Hybrid offers the advantages of both worlds, right? If it's mismanaged, it can easily become the negative parts of both worlds.
(13:18) There seems to be a difference of opinion between managers and the people that they manage in terms of what a hybrid schedule looks like.
(17:25) When you're looking at people's talents, you're probably also thinking, how will this person work in the hybrid environment we have today?
(20:00) What would you recommend to teams who feel as though their company culture is lacking in a hybrid environment?
(25:23) Individualize when and where you can
(29:06) Create an environment where they truly understand how valuable they are to the mission

Beth Sunshine: (00:15)
Hello and welcome to Culture Over Coffee, a podcast focused on improving company culture and fostering employee engagement. Every week we chat with experts and thought leaders about the latest information and proven practices you can use to reduce regrettable turnover, increase productivity on your team, and retain key customers. So, pour a cup of your favorite brew and join us. I'm your host, Beth Sunshine, SVP at Up Your Culture in the Center for Sales Strategy.

Beth Sunshine: (00:48)
In this episode, we're discussing some of the continuing frustrations and points of friction that persist in many hybrid work models. More importantly, we're going to uncover some of the secret ways to find success in virtual spaces. And who better to help break down the current state of hybrid work than JC Campese. Vice President and market manager at cmg JC provides great insights, such as if you're asking employees to change their work cadence, you better have a good reason why. How, if you're a manager doing just an inch more than what your people expect, either positively or negatively will feel like a mile. And finally, the importance of the most talented people understanding the value their seat on the bus. JC, thank you so much for joining me today for some culture over coffee.

JC Campese: (01:43)
I'm excited. I've never tried coffee, so it's gonna be, uh, culture over water for me.

Beth Sunshine: (01:48)
Okay, deal. I'll drink the coffee for both of us, . So, you and I have had the opportunity to work together in the talent arena for a long time now, and I was actually, actually thinking about that this morning. I wanna guess it's been about 15 years or so. Am I, am I right there?

JC Campese: (02:03)
I think so, yeah. Probably. I, I can't remember not, um, having, um, you as a part of my culture world, so, um, right. Gotta be at least 15

Beth Sunshine: (02:12)
Years. I, I can't remember doing this without you being part of it either. So I think you're exactly right. And it's funny because we're both in our twenties, so that doesn't really make sense, but yeah, interesting little fact. So you've always made hiring and developing highly talented people at top priority. That's just how I've always thought of you, and I know you're paying really close attention to how the changes that are happening in the world of work right now are affecting your people. There's a, there was a dramatic and I guess unexpected shift to remote work in 2020 that was challenging for everyone, but in many ways, the journey to determine what it's gonna look like next. Where are we moving forward? What is work gonna look like? I think that's been just as challenging, if not more challenging for most of the business leaders that I talked to. So I'm excited to dig into that today. You were recently, very recently named one of the 2022 talent superheroes, and for those who may not know it, you are going to receive your own bobblehead, which we were just talking about.

JC Campese: (03:17)
I'm so excited.

Beth Sunshine: (03:18)
Yes. It's gonna be cool. So when I was looking through your nominations for the talent superhero, you, you received nominations for that with, um, you know, a lot of information about why you are deserving of this. One thing stood out to me and I thought I'd just pull that out and share it today. Okay. So one person who nominated you said, we've been through, and I have this on my screen, so I'm gonna have to zoom in. We've been through a lengthy list of challenges over the past few years, challenges that individually create a lot of des Disrupt disruption and collectively feel like we can't catch a break. But you wouldn't know it in the way that JC leads. He has kept the team focused on the mission despite the distractions. So with that in mind, I'm really looking forward to digging into your experiences with hybrid and remote work, learning about how this has impacted your culture and how you've kept your team focused on that mission in that way, despite all the distractions. So, are you ready to get started? For

JC Campese: (04:17)

Beth Sunshine: (04:18)
Okay, good. So even though we're nearly three years past the start of the pandemic, I think so many people are still adjusting to either hybrid work or remote or kind of trying to figure out their, their way forward. What are some of the greatest points of friction that you think people are feeling these days?

JC Campese: (04:37)
Oh, wow. Great question. You know, um, we're, we're all creatures of habit, right? So I can remember, like it was yesterday, not three years ago, March 12th, 2020, when I stood up in front of our team and said, we're going home. That was a Thursday. And, uh, and I said, I hope I get to see you Monday. Having no idea. None of us did the, the, the amount of time and how our world would be changed. And those first few weeks I was fighting off people that were desperate to come back to the off office. They could not wrap their heads around the fact that they could do their job without an office. Right? Now, you fast forward a few years and there's several of those same people that say, I don't need an office to do my job. Right? These are the same exact people that two weeks after we sent them home said, can we please come back?

JC Campese: (05:29)
And now they're, they're, they're some of the same people that are saying, don't worry, I'm good. You know, call me if you need me. Uh, so wow, what a, what a change it's been in in those three years. And, and, and I think, you know, we've all learned so many new skills teams zoom working from home, streamy Yard, which we're on right now, you know, this world that has just changed and evolved and in a lot of ways made us better. The, the friction comes with people, especially in the, the sales arena that are truly independent contractors in their mind, they feel they own their business and they do in a lot of cases mm-hmm. . And if they, if they feel their business is progressing at the, uh, rate that they would expect and that give them fulfillment, then why, again, change their cadence. Why, again, um, have them do something different.

JC Campese: (06:20)
Now, they've gotten used to this creature of habit of working in, in this world and in a hybrid situation, that, that there, there was some friction, certainly for my team, and I'm certain a lot of, a lot of teams out there. My biggest thing on, um, going hybrid is if you're asking them to change again in their cadence mm-hmm. , you better give 'em a very valid why. Hmm. What is their why? Why do I need them here at eight 30 on this particular day? But on the next day, I don't, tell me what's the difference between Monday and a Tuesday besides, I have to dress both on top and bottom  and come into the office and drive with higher. You waited until the gas prices went up. Now you want us back. You know, those type of lines. So you have to give them a valid why, because, uh, they have every right to ask that question.

JC Campese: (07:10)
Uh, they have reshaped the way that in which they do their job, um, and, and in, and for them to come into the office, or like I said, just change their cadence at all. There has to be a valid why. So we've worked really hard, all of us on making sure that there's a reason why they get more out of being here when it's their time to be here, and that we're doing everything they can, that we can for them when they're not right in front of our face. Um, I, I would tell you that we have spent as much, if not more, in a lot of cases, working on culture during this time than on strategy.

Beth Sunshine: (07:49)

JC Campese: (07:49)
I mean, we have, we have full meetings L break, I took my whole department heads out for a planning meeting, and it hadn't, we didn't talk strategy at all. That meeting was 100% about culture. What do our teammates need from us as leaders? We are support staff. That's what our job is. We're supposed to support everybody. What do they need from us? Um, so, um, it's, it's been tricky. Um, it's been tricky for a lot of us, um, and every industry. Um, but in our, in our particular building, we've, we've maintained and hopefully even grown the positive side of our culture.

Beth Sunshine: (08:28)
I love that. And I, I love the term, I've never really heard it said that way. As managers, we are support staff that that's gonna resonate with me for a while. And I also like the way you phrased it when they're in the office, we need to have, I don't remember exactly how you said it, but there needs to be a reason for them to be here. Right. And if they're not the word I heard you say, there was also we're supporting them. We're, we're putting all of our effort into supporting them when they're not here. Cool. Way to think about it. Yeah.

JC Campese: (08:58)
Well, I think it's important. Um, you know, during this time people had, had, had choices too, right? Um, choices. They hadn't thought of time to think about those choices. They reevaluated their own life. We all did. I did. You know, you know what, let me lay out my priorities. And this job is very, very important to me. This career has been very, very giving to me. Um, and it almost cracks my top five of important things in my life. But it doesn't, it doesn't, okay. I mean, my family, my family is up there, you know, they're gonna beat this job. And I know a lot of people have the time to think about that as well. So we better make them really, really want to win here and, and feel that they can see where their path is. It can go, um, that they understand the mission of the organization and that, that ultimately, back to that, that phrase, they need to feel supported.

Beth Sunshine: (09:51)
Yeah. Yeah. Well said. So what do you see as the benefits now that you have transitioned mm-hmm.  and you have become more of an expert in the, the workings of a hybrid or remote workforce? What, what do you see as the benefits to that?

JC Campese: (10:07)
Well, the benefits I think aren't, if it's managed correctly, it just offers the advantages of both worlds, right? If it's mismanaged, mismanaged, it can easily become the negative parts of both worlds. So let's keep it simple for a second, Beth. I mean, seriously, you know, there's pros to working from home for people. There were pros that to being in the office. Let's, let's extrapolate those pros on both sides and put 'em together. It's not real hard, you know, if, if, if we just say what's the best part about working from home? And then we do as much as we can to nurture that, just like talent, you know, you, you, you concentrate on their strengths. So we gotta concentrate on the strengths of the work of their working environment. There's some positives that at, at the working from home model. What are those? Make sure you understand them and maximize them.

JC Campese: (11:02)
And what are the positives of being in the building, maximize them. The positives of being in the building are pretty obvious. If you have a good culture, it's the camaraderie, it's the idea sharing. It's the best idea happens in the hallway, not in the meeting, right? I mean, that one great idea that happens because someone said, Hey, man, how was your weekend? And someone said something and all of a sudden you started talking over coffee. Yeah. And that doesn't happen, you know, in the Zoom teams world. It just doesn't. Um, but the flexibility that, that the home office offered people, how can we still maximize that? And so we let them enjoy that time. Um, in both cases, if they're here, you know, it's, it's an environment where it's very inclusive. We have a lot of voices. We're not talking to them. We're talking with them.

JC Campese: (11:51)
We're sharing conversations. We're hearing from them. I had one of our sales members who was my most against coming back to the office, and he told me his litany of reasons why he told me that while in the office. And, uh, we sat in a sales meeting and someone brought up a challenge, okay. And he said, I have a point to make on that. And for a minute and a half, he shared a real life experience that helped that other person, but it also helped the other 14 people or so that were in that room. And I was quick enough to record it. And at the end of the meeting, I called him over, I said, Hey, man, let me show you this video. And he looked at it, I said, you wouldn't have spoken up on teams. They would've not learned from you. You would not have helped them.

JC Campese: (12:40)
And you actually probably feel pretty good about helping them today, don't you? He said, yeah, I was, you know, almost empowering to help somebody. It's been a while. I said, that's why I need you here. Hmm. We found his why he can offer more to the team, and he gets that fuel when he does that. Yeah. He couldn't have done that behind a screen. That's just not who he was. Um, so it's finding those individual wise, I think is super, super important. And the benefits, you know, multiply on their own. It's real simple. Find the best part of each just like talent. Yeah. And maximize the heck out of it.

Beth Sunshine: (13:15)
You're speaking my language for sure. So there seems to be a difference of opinion between managers and the people that they manage whenever I talk about what a hybrid schedule looks like. Yeah. Um, it seems like hybrid means something different to everyone. Overall. If I were to summarize it, it seems as though managers seem to prefer to have their employees in the office as much as possible. And when I speak to direct reports of those managers, I'm hearing more that they would like to spend more time working remotely than they currently are. So what would you say, what would you tell managers who are uncomfortable or resistant to letting their employees work from home most of the time? Or what are your thoughts on this at all?

JC Campese: (13:58)
I would start with a simple question for that manager and ask them, how do you define success? Uh, what does success mean? Mm-hmm. , does it mean seeing your whole team every day? If that's success for you, then they, they need to be in every day. I don't measure success by, um, seeing people, you know, every day. Um, I love seeing them. Um, and, and I think we've created a lot of reasons for them to come in. I, we have people here every day. Um, so, um, we're slowly, it feels like morphing a little bit out of hybrid because people are feeling the energy and, and, and, and enjoying being back in the flow. But I would start with how do you define success? And, you know, ev it comes down to those results. Isn't that what it's about? I mean, isn't it about the results?

JC Campese: (14:41)
Absolutely. If the only way you can have success is by seeing your team on a daily basis, that's the only way you can have success. As a manager, honestly, I'd question questioned the management. Um, um, because I, I think we've proven the best rise when times get tough. Um, so we've, we've all had to make some challenging decisions during the last three years. We should be set up with the best team, a team of all stars by this point. Um, and you work with them to help them get the success that they, they need out of their career, and therefore you'll get the success. Now I need to see people, you know, face to face. I challenge them to see their clients face to face. Why? You get more from it. You get, there's more ideas that are generated. There's more relationship building that happens.

JC Campese: (15:27)
The, the, the depth of that meeting, um, is measurable compared to, to a, a video call, in my opinion. Um, however, for a long time we've all worked with agencies that are in different states. How did we do that? If we, I mean, you didn't have to be in the office for that phone call. Um, so I, I would say, you know, there are different opinions. There are some that, some people that would love people here every day, and there's an accountability issue to that. Um, there's a managing expectations that come along with that. Um, but ultimately define success. And if you are hitting your goals or overachieving your goals and your team is happy, whatever that model is. Yeah. Makes sense. Look, we all remember the days that it used to be, especially in sales. I don't wanna see you in the office. I wanna see you in the morning, and I wanna see you at the end of the day, but why are you here during the day? You should be out making calls. And now it's like, come back in the office, we need to see you. Right. , like, but that's not what it was before . It wasn't, we didn't expect them at their desk all day, you know, if they're No,

Beth Sunshine: (16:30)
Before it was 10 to four, you're out the door.

JC Campese: (16:32)
Right. Right. You're right. It's like, I wanna, it's almost like, make sure you're alive and make sure that you, you come back in and you're still wearing the same clothes. So I know you didn't go to the beach . I mean, we, it, we had a col we were already hybrid compared to, to most businesses already. Right. So it's just understanding, measuring success and, and, and, and I challenge managers that say the only way to do it is if they're here and I see them first thing in the morning. I mean, that's, I don't believe that.

Beth Sunshine: (16:58)
Yeah. No, I, I don't either. And I think that's a really good, simple way to think of it, is how do you define success? I think that's great. So, and this is a, a question I just wanna slip in. It wasn't really on my radar before, but you had mentioned how like you should have a team of all stars by now. You're very talent focused. You're cognizant about the strengths of the people that you're hiring. Yeah. I imagine that because the world of work has changed a bit, when you're looking at people's talents, you're probably also thinking, how will this person work in the hybrid environment we have today? Is that right?

JC Campese: (17:34)
Yes, for sure. I mean, first it's, it's identifying the talents and do they have them, um, to, to further that conversation. Um, uh, but yeah, then they, they need to understand the culture that we have built. Um, they're, they're fitting into a culture that we've busted our butts on, honestly, and, and we've worked really hard at, and we're very proud of. And so we have an expectation from a culture standpoint that they just need to understand that. And part of that is how we work and, and part of it, not all of it, but they need to understand the flow, the cadence, that the, you know, what days you're expected to be here and why. Um, and, and, and what is expected of you outside of here. It all comes to, to that umbrella culture, though. I mean, I think culture is the largest challenge. Yep. That's happened with hybrid, in my opinion is, is just maintaining or growing or improving culture, uh, is, is not going to happen naturally in, in a hybrid or virtual world. Uh, so, and it's, and culture's critical to success. Uh, you know, yeah. Most, the most talented teams with a bad culture will not be the most successful team. They just won't be mm-hmm.

Beth Sunshine: (18:41)

JC Campese: (18:41)

Beth Sunshine: (18:41)
No, and you're right. You've worked really hard to create, you have an outstanding culture there. And every hire you make, you're at risk of blowing what you've built. So I, I hear what you're saying. Yeah. That, that every person matters and you have to really, it's, it's not gonna happen organically. You have to be intentional and bring people on board that are the, the right fit to what you're doing there.

JC Campese: (19:02)
Yeah. I mean, don't take my kindness for weakness. I mean, our expectations because of our culture, I believe are higher than a lot of places because, um, those that are already here, you, they, they want you to be able to keep up and, and they will have no problem. And, and rightfully so talking, you know, to us and, and, and challenging us on, on individuals and, and asking questions and you know, I, I always believe you should be trans, be as transparent as responsible and, and, and so everybody should have a voice, especially as we're trying to figure out these new ways of doing business over the last couple years.

Beth Sunshine: (19:40)
Yeah. Yeah. I know you do set the bar high and that's a good thing. Mm-hmm. . So there's a misconception I think that hybrid or remote companies can't have as healthy of a company culture as those who are in person most of the time. Mm-hmm. . And you talked about some of the things that happen when you are just a camaraderie that happens when people are together. What would you recommend to teams who feel as though their company culture is lacking in a hybrid environment and that the hybrid environment is causing the culture to be less vibrant?

JC Campese: (20:16)
I, I mentioned earlier that we did a meeting that was, uh, you know, all only a about culture, and it wasn't an hour long meeting. I took 'em offsite. It was a full, they thought it was gonna be a 2023 planning meeting, a strategy meeting. And one of the books I, I had that I, I quoted from and, and then gave them a copy of, it's called Soup. And, and, and it's all about, um, the special ingredients it takes for a culture. And we always say here that there's just something different in, at, at, at C M G, there's something different in Orlando. What's our special ingredient? And, and, and I, I would tell those that are struggling with it to literally take the time that, you know, you should to work on it. Mm-hmm. It's amazing what happens if you actually concentrate on things , you know?

JC Campese: (21:01)
Um, and then once you make those decisions about what you can do to better your culture, and you know what you're, you, you know what it is. By asking questions, you're gonna get feedback. People love to talk about what they'd want at their job. Um, you better do it, and you better stay consistent. Don't do one-offs. Don't, don't, don't say, Hey, how you doing on a Monday? And the next time you see 'em, walk right by 'em, care about them. Genuinely understand what their goals are. You know, the old days of the imq, what, you know, it's called some, you know, everything's called growth guide. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Growth guide, um, uh, you know, take the time to do that again and, you know, take the time to truly, people have changed over the last three years, some minor, but some major, yeah. What you thought worked before might not work for that individual as a team.

JC Campese: (21:47)
Be aligned as a management team, be ultra aligned. Um, outline what you're going to do. I could tell you right now what our town hall's going to be about in November of this year. Now we are gonna add things to it as the year goes on, but we know the theme already because we've spent the time to work on our culture when it comes to, uh, um, culture. It's, it, it's endless, uh, consistent. Um, get feedback, create an environment that those that you see that are going to be the next leaders, have a, a seat at the table and help them to build, uh, and build onto your culture. Uh, trust that they're talking to you because it means something to them. Uh, and then, but if you still have a hybrid, don't be afraid as the manager to, to see if it's okay the way those guys are doing it outside of the building.

JC Campese: (22:40)
I'll tell you, uh, a quick story. When we were totally out of the building, and a lot of people were only talking this way, we could still visit our, our, our team. All we had to do was get in our car. There was no, nobody stopping us. So around Thanksgiving of that 2020 year, we delivered pies to every employee face to face. And did we have a message? Yes. On top of the pie, it said, let's get a larger piece of the pie next year. , it was just a share game, right? You know, if, if there's a reason to, to go visit, there was a reason that we got out there. It was to visit them. I wanted to see 'em, I wanted them to feel that we had their back, that we were doing even more than they could have thought of, uh, to help and support them. You know, if, if you're the, if you're their manager, um, if you do an inch more than what they expect, it feels like a mile to them. And if you do an inch less, it feels just as long another mile the wrong way. Hmm. All you have to do is a little more than what they expect, and you can help build that culture.

Beth Sunshine: (23:47)
Mm. I love all that. So know your people. You referred to the growth guide. Yeah. So understand them, what they want, their, their mission. I loved the analogy to soup, and you do have a really special culture there. I bet a lot of people listening to this are feeling like they too have a really unique special culture. So I'm hearing you say, understand what the ingredients are, how, what is it in your soup of a culture that is, makes it what it is, and then exacerbate survey that, you know, really blow it up in a big, big way. And I love the concept of it doesn't mean you can't have the physical interactions. There will be reasons for that. And, and they will make a difference when you have them. Yeah. They're not necessary for all conversations.

JC Campese: (24:40)
Yeah. I think, I think you're exactly right. And, and, uh, you said it way better than me, so next time I'll interview you so you get better answers. . But, um, um, but, but truthfully, I, I, I, um, if you, if you care about culture and, and even if it's starting out, starting out as a selfish care, meaning you know that a good culture will lead to better success mm-hmm. , um, then, then just make sure that you're not just throwing stuff against a wall and it, and you hope it works. And you know, truly get, get feedback from, from people on your team. And when you do something, get feedback after it. What could have been better? What was this? Was this awesome? You know, was this, you know, marginal? Was it, was it all right? You know, and then individualize when and where you can, it's hard in an organization to indivi, individualize everything, but if you understand the people, you understand what makes them tick.

JC Campese: (25:32)
An example is, I, I hired somebody and during the interview process, I had nonchalantly to them asked, you know, if this works out, like, who's the first person when you leave the office and you get in your car? Who are you calling? And they said, oh, my mom, my mom. You know, that'd be awesome. So, you know, another meeting comes and we're at the table, we're done. It's, you're getting the job and yay. I said, I said, pick out your, pick out your phone really quick. While, while we were sitting there, I said, call your mom. Hand me the phone. Hand me the phone. You gave me the phone. I said, you know, hello Mrs. I said, I just wanted to con congratulate your whole family. Um, your daughter just got the job that she'd been really, um, fighting hard for. And I'm telling you, I am. I, goodness gracious, I'm so excited for her. And, and you're the first person she wanted to tell, which says a lot about your family. And I just wanna thank you, uh, for all you've done because your daughter is awesome or whatever. I said, you know, it, it took 30 seconds,

Beth Sunshine: (26:32)

JC Campese: (26:32)
30 seconds. I remember it. I'm pretty sure she's going to remember it. And, and, and now I, you know, there's a person, her biggest fan is even more behind her, her mother helping her like, wow, that's cool. Go, you gotta do great. You gotta do great. You know? So it's those little things, you know,

Beth Sunshine: (26:52)
It really, yeah. I, I think that got you a lot more than a mile with that inch. I think that one probably got me you a marathon. Yeah. That was, that was really cool. And she hadn't even started work there, and you're already letting her see that she's important to you. You hear her, you're listening, you know, and that you understand the unique qualities of each individual are so different. I love that story. Yeah. I'm glad you shared

JC Campese: (27:14)
It. Thanks.

Beth Sunshine: (27:15)
All right. So last question for you. If you could wave a magic wand, you can fix one thing related to hybrid and remote work, what would that be?

JC Campese: (27:25)
I would wave the wand and take us back to 2020 and, and get rid of the whole pandemic. So we never had to do it. . I can't do that. Um, but seriously, um, when times are tough, the cream rises, as I said, so I, I, I believe, uh, although some cases were leaner than we were, um, it's an imperative that you have the right people in the right seats mm-hmm.  on the bus, as they say. Yeah. And it's just as important for them to understand the value of that seat, uh, because if there's less seats in that bus, there's more value to each seat. Uh, so it's not just getting the right people on the bus in the, in the right seats, it's no, make sure they understand that value mm-hmm.  and make sure you're giving 'em that all the time. The best wanna be surrounded by the best.

JC Campese: (28:09)
So if I have a magic wand, my magic wand brings out, you know, a, a sales team full of Michael Jordan's and an OnAir team full of Magic Johnson's, and, and, and it makes my life easier where I'm walking around high five and the best. Um, um, but that can't happen. Uh, so I would say just make sure that you work hard every day to make, to ensure that your, to most talented people understand their value on your bus, and that they don't ever come to work wondering where they stand, what, what the goals are, what the mission is, and they also know their value. Um, we, we've been given an opportunity now to really, um, make those around us, know that we love 'em or like 'em or don't, um, during this, this last couple years. Um, and we spend more time with these folks and the people we claim to love. Um, so we might as well like 'em, and, and do whatever we can to make them like us and, and create an environment where they truly understand how valuable they are to the mission, um, and how valuable that seat on the bus is. And we're so happy they're sitting in it. Um, so I, I just think the magic wand is culture over strategy. You've gotta have strategy. It's a no-brainer. You, you know, that, um, we all know that Fight for culture.

Beth Sunshine: (29:26)
Hmm. I, I think that's a perfect note to end on. Beautiful way to end the conversation. Thank you JC so much for the time that you've spent today talking culture over coffee with me. You shared a lot of good information, a lot of ideas that I know our listeners will find very valuable for those listening. If it's okay with you, I'm gonna drop your LinkedIn information in the show notes. Okay. Is that good? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Then they can connect with you if you're interested. I know, uh, boy, I, I enjoy being connected to you as well. They am sure they will too. Um, I'm also gonna add the link for an on-demand webinar on manager's tips. I don't know if they'll get much better than yours, but we do have a webinar, um, that's called Working with a Remote Team, and the listeners may enjoy that too, just to supplement the conversation today. So I'll pop that in there too.

JC Campese: (30:14)
But, but look, it's real simple for me. I mean, um, I I, I, I said it to you, but now I'll say it for others to hear. I, I, I'm a big Beth Sunshine fan. I believe in what you guys do. You have made me better at what I do. Um, there's no doubt you have challenged me to pull out, uh, my strengths and, uh, and find workarounds for those things that aren't my strengths. And, and, uh, I'm, I'm honored that you would even wanna talk to me on this, the subject. But, um, it's one I feel strongly about. So I'm glad I got to talk,

Beth Sunshine: (30:45)
Made my day and, um, thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you for all of our listeners. It's a journey to up your culture and elevate employee engagement. Enjoy that journey. Thanks so much for spending time with us on Culture Over Coffee. If you've enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe and join us for every episode. For more helpful information on the topics of company culture and employee engagement, visit

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