Culture Over Coffee

Exploring People Development with Fran Mallace

December 14, 2022 Beth Sunshine Season 1 Episode 3
Culture Over Coffee
Exploring People Development with Fran Mallace
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, we’re continuing our exploration of each of the Four Engagement Elevators. Today, we’re going up in elevator number 2: People Development. This is the elevator where managers care about their people, build individualized relationships, transparently share information, coach both strengths and weaknesses, and provide meaningful feedback.  

And one of the best “People Developers” we know is, Fran Mallace, President and CEO at Make-A-Wish Arizona.  

Fran brings a ton of great points to think about, including: 

  • The importance of creating a culture that celebrates risk rather than punishing failure.  
  • How we often make the mistake of assuming our employees know that they’re doing a great job 
  • And why diversity of thought can go a long way in creating a strong company culture 

About Up Your Culture:
Up Your Culture, an employee engagement and company culture firm, was designed by The Center for Sales Strategy which has almost 40 years of experience improving business performance.

ENGAGE 2022: The Company Culture Report:

Fran Mallace:

Beth Sunshine:

Up Your Culture:

(03:34) Employee Engagement should be at the foundation of your organization
(08:13) How can companies foster the growth and development of their people?
(12:29) You need an individual growth plan for yourself too
(14:40) People development should be 60/40 mix of individualized and generalized efforts
(17:25) Leaders need to be intentional about providing consistent feedback
(19:57) Leaders should be vulnerable about their mistakes
(24:26) Create a culture that allows for mistakes not complacency

Beth Sunshine: (00:15)
Hello and welcome to Culture Over Coffee, a podcast focused on improving company culture and fostering employee engagement. Every week we chat with experts and thought leaders about the latest information and proven practices you can use to reduce regrettable turnover, increase productivity on your team, and retain key customers. So, pour a cup of your favorite brew and join us. I'm your host, Beth Sunshine, SVP at Up Your Culture in the Center for Sales Strategy.

Beth Sunshine: (00:48)
In this episode, we're continuing our exploration of each of the four engagement elevators. Today we're going up in elevator number two, people development. This elevator drives managers to demonstrate that they care about their people, build individualized relationships, transparently share information, coach both strengths and weaknesses, and provide meaningful feedback. And one of the best people, developers I know is Fran Mallace President and CEO at Make-A-Wish. Arizona Fran brings tons of great points to think about, including the importance of creating a culture that celebrates risk rather than punishing failure. How we often make the mistake of assuming our employees know that they're doing a great job and why diversity of thought can go a long way in creating a strong company culture. So Fran, thank you so much for joining me today for Culture Over Coffee. I had the pleasure of working with you, gosh, for a lot of years now. Yes, you were a client. Um, now you're not. Even now though, we've made time to connect, to talk about talent, ways to develop people, ways to increase employee engagement. Recently we talked about team building. I know people have always been a passion of yours, so I'm really glad that you've agreed to be here today to chat. We'll talk a little bit about people.

Fran Mallace: (02:18)
Of course. Well, thank you for the opportunity. Anytime. I'm grateful anytime I get to see you and talk to you. So, ah, this is fantastic. So really appreciative of you taking the time with me.

Beth Sunshine: (02:28)
Love that. Well this'll be good. So you're familiar with the four engagement elevators that we use to help organizations lift culture, elevate engagement, and that's really what this whole season of this podcast has been dedicated to. We've been exploring each of the elevators for our listeners. We've been, um, going through them one at a time. And today we're going to focus on people development. I know your passion for your employees has always been one of the things I've most enjoyed about working with you. I think it's just a hallmark of, of yours and I know it's as strong now at Make-A-Wish as it has ever been. Um, so I'm really excited to get your perspective on all of this today. Are you ready to jump in?

Fran Mallace: (03:10)
Sure. Let's do it.

Beth Sunshine: (03:12)
Okay. So I wanna start with a really broad question. Not yet about the engagement elevators just about culture and engagement. I just wanna know why do you think that it's important for any company to focus on these things? Why does employee engagement matter or what benefits can a company see if they do focus on employee

Fran Mallace: (03:33)
Engagement? Yeah, so it's everything, right? So, um, as you know from kind of uh, hearing me for many, many years, um, having a people focused culture is where it all starts. And truly you can't do anything else with it. So the team drives everything. So if that's not your foundation, you're not gonna have as successful of an organization as you can. What I love about coming from the media industry and now coming into the nonprofit space, it's absolutely transferable cuz people are people, right? So we can't deliver now on our mission before it was delivering on our, you know, our ad budgets and things like that. Although there is a, a revenue budget associated with number of wishes and things like that, that needs to happen. Um, but you have to provide that infrastructure. You also have to give people the opportunity to meet them where they are.

Fran Mallace: (04:23)
And you need to get them their resources and the tools and you also need to let them be empowered to make mistakes. And that's how they'll be able to really learn. Um, and I think they also need to know that you have their back to support them. So in terms of making sure that they know that we want diverse perspectives, we want their opinions, we want their voices heard, that's really key. Uh, and I think a lot of times we forget that those are just basic things and needs that people need in general. And what I'm also realizing, it's, it's really interesting with our coming from the media industry and the nonprofit, it's a much different generational mix. So I would say the average age of our team is like 33 as opposed to media where it's, you know, quite a bit older. There's just different things that really motivate them and inspire them and it does need to be about what's important to them.

Fran Mallace: (05:17)
And I think that bringing out the best in each other, and you've heard this for many years, that's kind of the mantra Yeah. You know, that we've really lived by for so long and bringing that into creating and fostering a positive environment. Yeah. Where that is the essence of everything we do that goes into the community, it goes to our wish kids, it goes to their families, our board. Um, cuz it's so different in terms of the structure of where we are today. But that also helps build confidence and I think that's a really important thing, especially with the generational type things that are happen and that whole team sport, everyone has to be working toward that same one team one mission, which is where the mantra kind of transforms into bringing out the best in each other. But I think also creating flexibility, um, this space of gratitude in the nonprofit space, when you're working with wish kids, you're bringing joy and happiness.

Fran Mallace: (06:09)
You know, we say joy is happy, um, and happy is, you know, really important. And that's what we bring every day. So it's hard not to be focused on our people because that's what we're focused on in the everyday work that we do. Uh, and we also focus on self-care. You know, it's a big deal to make sure that there's balance, you know, just like the media industry, when you're working a lot of hours, we're working a lot of events, we're working a lot of wish granting and things like that. You've gotta give people time to recharge and refresh. And one of the fun things that we, um, decided to do for December is that we're letting everyone work wherever they wanna work remotely. And we're only asking everyone to be in one day a week.

Beth Sunshine: (06:50)
Oh wow. And that's just for

Fran Mallace: (06:51)
December. Yeah. So if they wanna go visit their families or they wanna have time to do that around the holidays, we wanna make sure we provide that environment for them because we really do believe that's gonna make a difference for them. And it's also gonna make a difference in the lives of the people that they've entrusted to be able to serve. So I love that. We think it's a pretty big deal.

Beth Sunshine: (07:11)
Very big deal. Interesting to hear you talk about how so much of this is transferrable from your past life in media dealing with ad budgets and all of that to the nonprofit space. So much of it is the same and yet there are differences. And um, one of the things you pointed to is just generational differences that might come up again in our conversation. I wanna dig into people development and Sure. I think you said people are people like we need to remember just the human side of, of correct what we do every day, but also interesting to think about the differences of people. So I'm excited to hear Yeah. Sort of how you break that down. Um, one thing I think you and I probably both agree on is the fact that the commitment for people development really has to start or come from the very, very top. The mantra you pointed to is a great example of that. It can't just live in on any one team or with any one manager. It has, it has to come from the top. So what are some ways you can think of that companies can foster that kind of atmosphere where they're focused on their people and the development and growth of their people?

Fran Mallace: (08:20)
Well, you have to make sure you really are intentional about it. So you can't just say it, you actually have to have the actions that prove it, that you're doing all these things. Um, and I'll give you just a couple of examples that have at least worked and I've only been here just just short of a year. Um, we've instituted IDPs, which are the in develop individual development plans, just so you can show particularly with, um, a different generational type. They wanna know how they can tie back into the community. They're the things that they are really, that are really important to them. I mean, they've picked nonprofit for a reason because it's so important to them. They've picked Make-a-Wish because the mission's important to them. Mm-hmm. . But it's gotta be a way to tie back to everything that they're doing. Um, and having an IDP allows them to see where they can grow.

Fran Mallace: (09:05)
And again, one of the things that other companies can do that we just did in the last few months, we created a path, kind of a journey for them. Mm-hmm. . So we've said, gosh, if what's important to you, you know, if a title's important to you, what are those responsibilities that come with it? And it's not so much the title as it is the responsibilities, but building the level and different levels and showing them what they need to do or what they need in terms of what's next for them. And gi looking at the possibilities for them and what that might look like. Cross-training. Um, we've gotten, you know, we started a book club, you know, we've started Economic Forecast cuz we have people that don't even know that they can actually contribute more to a 401k. And why should they be doing that and what's it gonna be compounded.

Fran Mallace: (09:51)
So bringing and introducing things like that that aren't your traditional growth opportunities with, you know, things like just training and that kind of thing, or going to industry events. Uh, we join the chamber. So not only does the Chamber have events and mentorship, which I think is key. Every single one of our employees now has a mentor and they have to have a formal mentor. They may have had informal mentors, but they have to set along, you know, side time to do that and through the chamber. And then they've um, they've got a mentorship program and a mentee program. So we're tying them so that they don't necessarily have someone that's, they're being mentored by by their boss inside our own organization. It's expanding the possibilities for them with very corporate type businesses. And there's a young professionals group that now meets and has mixers and they have speakers.

Fran Mallace: (10:43)
Um, they just had one because the Super Bowl is gonna be here. Their chief marketing person spoke about what they're gonna be doing, you know, to bring even more people into Arizona soon Yeah. For the Super Bowl. But it's just things like that. Or we just started a D E I council and they're driving that. So it's all coming from the grassroots of our employees saying, gosh, this is important to us. Why are we not doing these things? And now we're starting to develop and do things like that. But those are important. And we have a huddle every week and every single person is assigned to a huddle and they can do whatever they want with it. They have an hour to talk about whatever they'd like to talk about. And we've had things like, um, people coming in and talking about how to use photography in the digital space. It happens to be our digital digital manager. So, but that was so valuable, you know, for everyone to learn when we're on a wish and how do you take pictures and what's the best lighting And like even things like that that are growth opportunities that aren't your, you know, typical I'm gonna train you or I'm gonna cross train you on how this job is done or how this job is done. So I think it's opening up that opportunity for people to, to do things like that. Yeah. People don't

Beth Sunshine: (11:52)
Grow, grow in a vacuum. We tend to grow in relation to someone else. And I, I love the way with the chamber mentor mentee program or you mentioned the IDP or even planning out the, the career journey with someone. All of those things, investing that time in someone, it, it's exciting to hear about it. I wanna kind of add a launching pad. You mentioned the IDP and it, it really caught my attention. It was called an individualized

Fran Mallace: (12:21)
Development Development Development. Yep.

Beth Sunshine: (12:23)
I wanna, I wanna dig into that individualized part.

Fran Mallace: (12:26)
You need both. Say again? You need both. You need both. You need an individual plan for yourself because you know what's unique about you. Like a giraffe. Yep. Um, I had to get the giraffe in there to be able to stick.

Beth Sunshine: (12:37)
Good. I'm glad I wouldn't be a conversation with you. You if you did not. You might even need to elaborate on the giraffe, but yes,

Fran Mallace: (12:42)
We'll see if we have time. Um, but it's really important because there's certain things that there's gonna be gaps in all of us. Right. On what we need to know or what we need to learn for that next thing that we wanna do. Mm-hmm. . But then the things like digital photography or, um, we had eight people from our team that spoke at the national conference. They were excited and nervous about it. Right. One of the things that I'm finding with this team, they don't like getting up and speaking in front of people other than the team itself. So just being able to say, Hey, have you done Toastmasters? Or you know, what's gonna make you more comfortable? Cuz you're great when you just start talking about all that knowledge that you have. Uh, and repositioning their mindset that they're actually giving a gift to someone when they're sharing with them their experiences. That's a

Beth Sunshine: (13:29)
Good and just re rephrasing

Fran Mallace: (13:30)
That. So they learn a lot of the more, um, general things in our huddles or when we have our board members come in and talk about what they do for a living. But then the individual piece is, I wanna be able to be a better public speaker or you know, I want to, uh, learn excel. I mean simple little things that we forget about that maybe along the way they didn't learn how to do PowerPoint or they didn't learn how to do some type of graphics package or whatever it might be. And just giving them that confidence that they can take those classes, um, particularly when they're online and make-a-wish. America offers an amazing university that allows for that. You know, as a federated model, we get all of those resources available to us and they can do it on their own time too. Love that. And then they can work with their, you know, their leader to make sure that they get the things done when they need to get 'em done.

Beth Sunshine: (14:21)
So when you're developing someone, how much of that development do you think is um, sort of for everyone and how much of that needs to be really customized or individualized to the unique human being because of their, you know, unique talents or skills or experiences? What's the balance there?

Fran Mallace: (14:40)
I would say it's probably 60 40. So I think 60 60 60 being more individualized because there's things that they want to do. And a lot of times it may be things that they, they already possess and they just don't know that they have it and it's again, bringing the best out in them. But I still think there's that 40% that's gonna be generic that they're gonna learn or more generalized. Because I think as we think about positions for the future, they're not as specific as they used to be. They're definitely more generalists than ever before, at least in the nonprofit space because the cross-training is really fun to watch because everyone is coming together as a team. And I think it's tough if you have people just doing their job, you're always gonna create those silos. If everyone only has one thing that they do really well, where if they're more of a generalist than they can learn things about other stuff when people are out. Or they might actually say, wow, I actually like this more than my thing that I'm doing today. I think I wanna explore more about that and then gain more knowledge because of it. So I think it's opening up those, again, possibilities and opportunities that they may have thought that they might not even like cuz they didn't get an opportunity to be exposed to it.

Beth Sunshine: (15:51)
I love it. So a big part is probably asking people where they wanna grow where Correct. Where they feel like they haven't had exposure. Love it.

Fran Mallace: (16:00)
Yeah. And they're, they want to tell you. So the best thing that we can do as leaders is actually ask them, right? Mm-hmm. . So you know, that to me is the advice because you've gotta ask people what it is they need and want us trying to second guess or us trying to make those decisions for them doesn't work. Right. It doesn't work with anything that we do in life. Right. I agree. Because we're making assumptions when we don't really know unless we talk to

Beth Sunshine: (16:25)
Them. I agree. Yeah, I think you're right. Asking the questions, where do you wanna grow? How can I help you grow? Certainly key, A big part of growing someone is also giving them feedback along the way. Yeah. And one of the questions we included in the Engage 2022 survey was about this, it was about giving feedback as just part of the people development strategy. So I wanna tell you what we learned and then I wanna get your reaction to that. So I've got it written right here on my screen. So while nearly half of the respondents that we heard from said that they have received feedback from their manager within the last week, 21% of them have not received feedback for at least six months and 15. Yeah. 15% of them have not received feedback from their manager in the last year. So first I just wanna hear what is your overall reaction to that?

Fran Mallace: (17:21)
So number surprised and I would say not okay. . Right. That is not okay. So I think again, as leaders, right, of organizations, we have got to be better at that. So we have to be intentional. And I will share with you that for, and this is something, you know, we did at Cox that you know, was a great learning practice, uh, that I brought over. We do listening tours. So I meet with every single employee twice a year. So definitely easier to, to do with less than 40 employees, right? Because you can pull it off for an hour. But it's really important. And those are the times where you ask, you know, what makes you tick, what tick you off? You know, what is it that's what matters to you? Why, you know, why are you here? Why do you get up in the morning? Not your traditional, Hey, what's your biggest challenge or what's your biggest opportunity? They get that in their one-on-ones. So what surprises me the most is that our team does one-on-ones. Some of them do 'em weekly depending on what department you're in. Um, with wish managers and things like that. We're doing so many wishes a day that you kind of have to meet, you know, more often. But I would say there's not one person in our building that doesn't have a touchpoint with their leader at least once a month. So that's why

Beth Sunshine: (18:35)
Shocks feedback in that on their performance or on

Fran Mallace: (18:39)

Beth Sunshine: (18:40)
Whatever. Yeah.

Fran Mallace: (18:41)

Beth Sunshine: (18:41)
Why do you think that is such an important part of developing people? Specifically

Fran Mallace: (18:47)
Feedback? Yeah, so I think it's two parts and I think there's the part where you have to tell people what they're doing well and you need to encourage them and help build their confidence so that they more do more of that. And I know you're a big believer in strength finders and I am, you know, Gallup and all of that. You gotta make sure that you're honing in those skills that you do really well. The other part of that is you've gotta, you know, and we say it's a gift, right? Feedback's a gift. You have to let people know when they're stubbing their toe. Like it's okay, you know, to be, you make a mistake, what did you learn from it, right? Celebrate that you actually made a mistake and you took a risk and create that culture and environment that allows it to be a safe place.

Fran Mallace: (19:25)
If you don't do that, you're not gonna have people growing. They're gonna just get stuck. And I think if you don't, again, if you don't tell people what that is, they can't do anything about it. So you've gotta have that balance of making sure that they know exactly, you know, what's occurred. And a lot of times they probably know anyway and it's not, you know, berating them. It's actually saying, all right, you know what happened? You know, what are you gonna do different next time? Or you know, if you could, if you had a doover, what would you do differently?

Beth Sunshine: (19:54)
So that's a great way to say, if you had a doover, what would you do

Fran Mallace: (19:57)
Differently? Yeah. What would you do differently? Right? So everybody gets a pass, everybody gets, you know, no one's perfect. And I think that's that culture thing. It's, you can't be afraid to say I made a mistake. And again, I think that starts with me. I have made tons of mistakes along the way here, right? Mm-hmm. , especially in a new environment and I'm learning every day. Being vulnerable is so important. Cuz when you show everyone it's okay to do that, I'm seeing more and more people go, okay, I messed up, here's what happened. And you kind of laugh about it, right? Yes. What's the worst thing that could happen? I mean, what on earth could we do? We we're not gonna hopefully do something that's gonna be detrimental, right? If we make a mistake, we learn from it and we say, okay, here's how we would fix it next time and we'll make sure that we don't do it again. Gotta create that culture.

Beth Sunshine: (20:48)
Yes. And I like that you touched on both sides of it. Um, you started by talking about the importance of telling people what they're doing. Well and it's funny to me how often we don't do that. We assume people know what they're doing. Well if they're doing a good job, we assume they know they're doing a good job. But what I have found over the course of my career, and it sounds like this has been sort of a hot button for you too, is people don't always know, um, when they're highly talented, when things come naturally to them, they're not always able to put their finger on exactly what it is they're doing that is leading to success. So having a manager point that out, it's kind of like in sports where the coach might play game film after the game and be able to point out real specifically see that right there. That is what, well,

Fran Mallace: (21:36)
And I like what you said about that, Beth, but do it in the moment. Like in the moment, does something really great?

Beth Sunshine: (21:41)

Fran Mallace: (21:42)
Do it in the moment. Right? Or if something happens we're, you know, for us we might be with a wish family and maybe something didn't go great when you get back in the car and say, Hey, you know, maybe it could have worked even better if perhaps this would've hurt or something like that.

Beth Sunshine: (21:57)
Yes, I love

Fran Mallace: (21:58)
That love. So I just think love in the moment is important. Don't wait, you know? Yeah. Whether it's good or, you know, encouragement in terms of that, you know, feedback in term, you know, you're not criticizing them but you're giving them something constructive that they can walk away and go, oh, okay, I didn't even realize I did that. And how many times have you heard that? You know, I mean, how many times have I said, wow, I had no idea that I even did that. So I think it's really critical that you do go, um, but you gotta let people know when they're doing a great job too. Everyone wants

Beth Sunshine: (22:29)
Best, best practices that you're saying, I guess would be, first of all, make sure to point out what they're doing right. Also let them know when they stubbed their toe. And, and I like the phrasing of, you know, if you had it to do differently, what would, uh, do over, what would that be? Give them that feedback in the moment. In the moment. Um, good.

Fran Mallace: (22:49)
I think the communication is so big, right? We forget sometimes, and we used to laugh about it at Cox, we're called Cox Communications, you know, sometimes we just forget. They're like, that communication part's really important. . Right. You know, and even with like, even with wish kids, like, well did we tell them that they needed to be whatever, whatever. Oh, maybe not. You know,

Beth Sunshine: (23:09)
We assume they knew.

Fran Mallace: (23:10)
Yeah. Well cuz everybody gets so busy and you've got so many things on your plate that you kind of have to take a step back and go, okay, what is it that I actually just said to someone? And that they really walk away, you know, understanding it. And I, I like to do that in one-on-ones too. And of course reviews, you know, what did you hear? You know, tell me what you heard. Just to validate, because sometimes people don't even walk away with hearing that they do an amazing job because sometimes something may have happened in their past and they can't get through or get over something that was said to them 10 years ago. But if you make them say it, well this is is what I heard. Um, and it, and they don't come back and say, this is what I heard. You can say, well let me tell you what I said. I think you heard it a little bit differently. So let's talk about that again.

Beth Sunshine: (23:54)
I like that it's the three sides to every story, right? There's yes, what I said, what you said and what we each think happened. Right. I like that. Asking, what did you hear? Yeah. So maybe this would relate to that or maybe you have an entirely different train of thought for this next question, but is there anything you'd recommend that managers specifically do to avoid stifling employee development? To avoid doing it wrong? What? Anything that, that they, you would recommend they steer clear of?

Fran Mallace: (24:26)
Yeah, I would say not allowing for people to make mistakes, not allowing for, um, complacency. Uh, just making sure that you have this continuous learning environment and then don't micromanage. You know, you've hired someone to take on a role because you felt like they were the very best person for it. Get outta the way. So I think a lot of times we get in the way or we don't give that extra freedom for people to make mistakes or, you know, do things a different way than you thought it could have been done. That's been a great learning for me is it may not necessarily be the way I would've approached it. Wow. That really worked. Mm-hmm. . So I just think getting out of the way is probably the best advice. And again, hire the right people. Hire the people around you and surround yourself. I mean, we always used to joke, hire people that are smarter than you.

Fran Mallace: (25:21)
It's different now. Hire people that really bring different things. Um, and don't hire someone just like yourself because it's not gonna help you with, you know, growth for the organization and all those kind of things. So don't be afraid, you know, don't be afraid to hire someone that's really very different from you and make sure you've got diversity of thought. I think we do get stuck that we like people that are just like us. Yeah. And we have to break that mold to, to not do that. Um, I think that's really important. So those are the things for me. But the micromanaging, I mean I've seen it everywhere. It de it stifles everything. Yeah. Um, and it doesn't make you feel good about, you know, what you're doing and that's where you build that trust. You, you know, you build that trust cuz you let people do what they need to do to get the job done.

Fran Mallace: (26:09)
And you know what, a lot of the times they do it even better  Yeah. Than the way that you thought that they could do it. So I, I like the don't tell ask. Um, and make sure you're asking your team what it is they need. Right. Or ask them, you know, what they think and make sure all the voices are heard. I think a lot of times we also go to the same people for the same projects or we think of someone, think of different people to do things and give other people a chance. Um, and I know that I've learned Matt being here because I don't know everyone and I don't know their skillsets yet. I'm starting to do that, but I just pick random people to do things and then you see what happens because I don't have that built in. Um, jadedness I guess you would say.

Fran Mallace: (26:53)
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Or, and it hurts the people that you go to all the time. You know, it creates kind of a little bit of animosity that they are, you know, reviewed as or viewed as, you know, someone that is really close to you or um, it might be a favorite. That type of thing. I think it takes all of that out of the mix if you go to different people and give um, everyone a chance to do different things. And even the ones that don't raise their hand, cuz the ones that you know, the usual ones raise their hand all the time or volunteer. I'm interested in the ones that don't. Why are they not volunteering? Why are they not raising the hand, you know, their hand. Mm-hmm. . So giving people, and then once they do again they build that confidence and then you've got everyone that wants to do everything, which is really kind of fun and it makes it very fair and equitable.

Beth Sunshine: (27:36)
A lot of what you're talking about from creating diversity of thought to not micro micromanaging, not getting in their way. Yeah. A lot of it, even going back to where we started, our conversation with the IDPs really relies on building trust. Yeah. I'm hearing the, the theme of trust sort of running through everything you're saying. Your people have to trust you and you have to trust your people in order for you to develop them and,

Fran Mallace: (28:03)
And, and values. Right. What are the values of the organization? You know, create the values that are important to the team. Mm-hmm . And a lot of times, you know, I know we have even make-a-Wish America values, which are great, but we have different ones for the Arizona chapter. Right. Because there's different ones that are important to us that are really, you know, really, really important to us. Yeah. Um, that we're working on every day.

Beth Sunshine: (28:26)
I'm so glad you added that. We are out of time, but boy, I can do this all day with you. I wanna think Me

Fran Mallace: (28:32)
Too. I don't like being outta time. I love our time together.

Beth Sunshine: (28:37)
We'll do it again and we'll talk offline. Cause I do love talking about just people and engagement and growing, um, you know, our organizations and our people. So thank you for, for making this time. I'm having some culture over coffee with me. You've shared a lot of information. You have a, a lot of unique perspectives. You had some very unique ideas that I think our listeners will walk away with. Um, for those listening I'm gonna drop Fran's LinkedIn information in the show notes so you can connect with her, keep up with all the great things she's doing with her team at Make-A-Wish. You can also ask her about the giraffe cuz we didn't have time to get,

Fran Mallace: (29:12)
And Juan don't keep asking people if they had a magic wand, what would they wish for? That's a really good question. Was

Beth Sunshine: (29:19)
Another good question. Yep. So start those conversations with Fran. I'm also going to drop in the link to the Engage 2022 report. I referred to that earlier. There's some interesting statistics in there, so you may wanna dive into any additional details there that might interest you. So thank you everyone, and thank you Fran. Enjoy

Fran Mallace: (29:37)

Beth Sunshine: (29:37)
Firm of your culture.

Fran Mallace: (29:39)
Appreciate being here.

Beth Sunshine: (29:40)
Thank you so much. Thanks so much for spending time with us on Culture Over Coffee. If you've enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe and join us for every episode. For more helpful information on the topics of company culture and employee engagement, visit Enjoy the journey as you increase engagement and up your culture.